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Which engines would you think twice about

21K views 74 replies 40 participants last post by  davidpm 
#1 ·
Some engines are hard to find parts for. If your buying a boat which engines would make you feel pretty good vs which ones would you be afraid of in reference to finding parts.

Easy
Universal
Yamnar
Atomic 4 but expect to pay 5,000 less for boat as the market has discounted it.


Hard
Farryman
Any raw water cooled
 
#5 · (Edited)
After owning a Nanni for the past 10 months I have had enough! I am going to re-power with a yanmar when we get hauled out on the 22nd (we found a god price at the miami boat show :). We have had an issue with the heat exchanger for some time now and the Nanni rep was less than helpful with locating the parts we needed. His exact words were "Your engine is an older model so we don't carry parts for it. You should consider re-powering with one of our newer models." This was after we finally got him on the phone a month and a half after we had first contacted him! Never again would I even consider owning a Nanni! Overly complex pice of $&#@!
 
#7 ·
After owning a Nanni for the past 10 months I have had enough! I am going to re-power with a yanmar .....
Assuming this was a new-to-you boat 10 months ago - and not a repower in itself?

Anyhow I'm sure I'll be in a minority here, but the various VW marinizations (primarily based on the Rabbit Diesel, and now Jetta) use all the usual marinization parts (Jabsco, Bowman, Hurth/Z), and actual engine parts are pretty much available just about anywhere world wide.
 
#12 ·
Would that be the Lister assembled with BSW fasteners and Lucas electrical accessories? :eek:
 
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#21 ·
OMC Zephyr saildrive is on my list of NOT.

They are so close, and yet so far, to being the perfect sailboat engine.

"Most" of the parts are OMC outboard. Then there are the parts that are "not" and they are silly expensive and everything must be ordered.

If one enjoys pulling the engine out of the boat to change the water pump impeller, they are a hoot :D
 
#17 ·
shocking1-
Westerbeke is not an engine. They are a contractor who put out bids for parts, including engine blocks, and then build them up and paint the finished product all red. (Including all the rubber parts, belts, hoses, that the suppliers tell you never to paint.)
So when you buy a "Westerbeke" you really have to find out who made the actual block. The main portions of your engine could come from any one of a number of different companies, depending on which block it is.
Yes they make a number of decent engines, but it is the "paint it all red, don't listen to the prime vendors who say that will make their parts fail" portion that rubs me the wrong way.
 
#20 ·
but it is the "paint it all red, don't listen to the prime vendors who say that will make their parts fail" portion that rubs me the wrong way.
They stopped doing this. Our engine was one of the last "paint it all red" engines. The paint jobs are actually quite good these days and right in line with the rest of them.

In smaller sizes the Westies are often Mitsubishi though they do use Isuzu blocks and others as well. Even small Volvo's are Perkins blocks...

That said the only major that I know of that actually "builds" their engines in small sizes in Yanmar.

Beta = Kubota
Universal = Kubota
Nani (current small models) = Kubota
Yanmar, in larger engines, uses BMW and Deutz blocks among others......

Westerbeke & Universal are quite good about parts availability but the parts, like most, are PRICEY!!!
 
#18 ·
The ones that I can speak to:

Generally good
Cummins
Beta
Detroit (though many of these are starting to get pretty old)
Yanmar
Westerbeke (as mentioned there is some variation in these)
Volvo (newer ones, the parts are still expensive but they run well)
Isuzu
Deere

Ones that I would avoid
Volvo (older ones)
Atomic 4
Farryman
Sabb
 
#24 ·
The ones that I can speak to:

Generally good
Cummins
Beta
Detroit (though many of these are starting to get pretty old)
Yanmar
Westerbeke (as mentioned there is some variation in these)
Volvo (newer ones, the parts are still expensive but they run well)
Isuzu
Deere

Ones that I would avoid
Volvo (older ones)
Atomic 4
Farryman
Sabb
You should qualify your listing the Atomic Bomb if your "avoid" call is based only on it being a gas engine. They are wonderful little engines that will last as long as a diesel if cared for. You can also get parts, right down to brand new engine blocks.
 
#19 ·
I am pleased with my Westerbeke 58 (Mitsubishi block) except that the parts are very, very expensive. I thought Volvo was bad, but the Westerbeke prices are terrible.
 
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#25 ·
My statement on the atomic 4 is based partly on it being a gas engine but more on the amount of work that one needs to put in to keep it running well. I like an engine that I can put thousands of hours on with only changing the oil, impeller and air filter. Atomic 4's can last a very long time for a gas engine but they require too much work for me.
 
#26 ·
I never thought of that.
What exactly labor wise is required to keep them running that is not required for a diesel?
 
#30 · (Edited)
...certainly on the 'rather not' list..;)

If a boat has a saildrive unit is it true that to convert to stern shaft is probably not worth it?
Hmmm.... fitting a shaft log after the fact, mounting a strut where perhaps one was not intended to be.... and then there's the matter of that rather large hole between it all once you manage all that.. a new gearbox may well be required as well..
 
#28 ·
If a boat has a saildrive unit is it true that to convert to stern shaft is probably not worth it?
If so what saildrive unit would you re-power with?
 
#29 ·
When you guys say expensive what are we taking about.
Sometimes a statement can be true but not significant.
For example I check on some sample prices for a Universal
Impeller 48
starter 1000
injector 121

For a volvo what we we be talking. I couldn't find any which I suspect is part of the problem?
 
#31 ·
This thread might be helpful to people who are looking to buy a boat but maybe even more so to folks who have an engine that falls on the don't side.

We all know that we can have an engine that was well taken care of and it can last a long long time. Not being able to find parts or part being expensive is only a problem if you need parts.

Being forward that some engines may end up costing more to keep running than they are worth may keep some of us from throughing good money after a formerly good engine.

The repair replace question can be a very important one with engines.
 
#32 ·
Assuming a good model, starts well, no smoke good compression.

Is there anything that would put an engine on the watch-out list for you?
Age, external corrosion, hours, rebuild?
Anything, what would worry you?
 
#35 ·
Here is how I would look at a diesel engine normally:

Listening to the engine will tell you a lot if you know what to listen for. While you are listening, you should watch the exhaust color and have them go up to full rpm both in gear and out. When it is in gear, you will also be able to tell if the gearing/prop is correct. Blue exhaust means that it is burning oil which means it isn't sealing well. If the engine is cold, this might be normal but if the engine is warm, it is a sign of worn rings. Black exhaust means that it isn't getting enough air for the amount of fuel. This could be because the engine is lugging or the air filter is plugged. Grey smoke means that the combustion in the chamber is not optimal and is a sign of fuel delivery issues normally. If diesel or oil comes out, you should look into it.

If they will let you, I recommend taking an oil sample and sending it out to a place like blackstone labs. If they will tell you how many hours are on it since the last oil change, you can get a pretty good idea of what condition the internals are in.

A visual inspection is definitely worthwhile. Look for oil leaks and coolant leaks. The hardest leaks to deal with are usually a rear main, sometimes the oil pan and the head.

How it starts will tell you a lot. Both cold and hot starting are informative. Lots of cranking on a cold start is a sign of poor compression or an air leak in the fuel system usually. On some engines with glowplugs or grid heaters, it can be a sign that these are not working.
 
#33 ·
I would never buy another boat with a Volvo in it.
Spare parts are shockingly expensive.
Like out of sight.

In 1998, a 22 year-old MD17C motor cracked its exhaust manifold. It was my fault. The cost, from Volvo, £1300 (nearly $2000).

That is typical.

Apparently a 22 year-old motor is "old".

So say Volvo, anyway.

Maybe they are not supposed to last that long?
.
 
#37 ·
Reply to post 34:
The conversion to electronic ignition is very simple. Install it, EI kit 100$, and you are done. A couple of hours and a 100$ carb rebuild kit every 5 yrs. I can deal with that. I do not know why the updraft carb on the A-4 would cause problems in rough seas. Mine sure hasn't. Crud in the tank, plugged fuel filters yes but that is not the A-4s fault. Raw water cooled is an issue but remember the A-4 was designed and the metal used in the casting is for the marine environment. A-4, gear ratio and prop size is a interesting subject. Engine RPM relates directly to engine HP. Prop size and pitch affect load on the engine and can be checked by manifold vac #s. All this can be joined and create a very viable engine. IMO. Dan S/V Marian Claire
 
#38 ·
I loved my Atomic 4 simple, quiet, reliable but eventually replaced it. It's been out of production too long. when Moyer Marine goes away it will be difficult to get parts. Also you need blocks to rebuild and good ones are getting fewer and fewer. It's still pretty big bucks to bore and sleeve. Then you have an engine that's not as desirable for a resale as a diesel.
 
#40 ·
Don's son seems to be taking more and more phone calls. I think he will be taking over and rightly so as he seems like he knows almost as much as the old man :).

Casting blocks and heads can be no small feat, so there must be some demand.

I would never repower a boat that had an A-4 with anything but another A-4. It can be done for less than half the $$ of a diesel repower. That's a lot of rum!
 
#39 · (Edited)
I have a lot of experience with ATOMIC4 engines and I think they are fantastic.
There are some things that must be done to update them, then, they are pretty much care free.
1. Fresh water cooling
2. Electronic Ignition
3. Modern fuel filter & lines
4. Electric fuel pump
5. Proper prop selection (the Indigo 3 blade is fantastic)
6. PCV valve

Some of these engines have not had anything done to them in 30-40 years. Spending a thousand dollars in parts will get you an engine that might outlive all of us.

The thing is, the way many of us use a sailboat engine is not at all what a diesel engine is designed for. However, it's exactly what a gasoline engine was designed for. If you motor for hours on end, often, you need a diesel. If you motor for a few minutes twice a day, two times per week, your diesel might not be so happy but your Atomic4 will do just fine.

Don Moyer (moyermarine.com) is casting blocks, heads, etc. There are valuable forums there that will get you fast, knowledgeable replies. It's the Sailnet.com for Atomic4's :D
 
#41 ·
I also love my Atomic 4 but I'm not sure I'd suggest it for everyone. Heck, I'd probably enjoy having an old Palmer with the visible flywheel too. Old engines are easier to work on - and that is the key. These older gasoline engines are good for folks who don't mind getting some dirt in their fingernails (DIY) and who may think they know something about spark ignition gas engines or car engines. There is a certain amount of confidence that comes from knowing you can tweak your own engine while underway if it is needed as well.
There are very few good Atomic 4 mechanics as far as I know so it is somewhat incumbent on the owner of one to do most (or all) of their engine work themselves. I have learned a lot about both gas and diesel engine installations in the process of learning about my Atomic 4. Neither type of engine scares me now and I never took 'Auto Shop' in high school - kinda' wish I did now though.
Diesel mechanics are a dime a dozen at about $80/hour for those who choose to let someone else do it.
 
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