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Let's talk about anchors some more

30K views 183 replies 39 participants last post by  Mantus Anchors 
#1 · (Edited)
I like big, what most consider "oversized" anchors. My boat is 28 feet, my primary anchor is a 50 pound CQR, with 100 feet of 5/8 chain. I don't drag, set it and forget it. My second anchor or "lunch hook" is 35 pound Danforth with 30 feet of 3/8 chain and 100 feet of 1/2 inch, 3 strand. My storm anchor, that is stored in an aft Lazzerette is a 70 pound Danforth that I put on the 5/8 chain. I carry 2, 100 pound dumbells that I use as sentinal's if I anchor deep. I carry dive gear and a lift bag for dealing with this ground tackle. I also have on board a 30 pound folding fisherman (my fav.) and this claw, plow looking thing, and a 35 pound northhill. I have all these on board and use all of them all the time. I've even made some money renting some of this gear to ill equiped cruisers when a blow is coming. I don't think you can have too much ground tackle on board. I'm writing this because I want people to look at their ground tackle and consider if it's actually big enough, or do they just have what the boat came with, or what they read was the right size somewhere.
 
#3 ·
Well the only chain I have is the 5/8 and the 30 feet of 3/8. It's in the Chain locker and it gives me a little weight in the bow. The other anchors are in lazzerette's and the dumb bells are in the bildge. I trade out anchors on the chain depending on the bottom. I don't have an engine so motoring out of situations isn't an option, and often sailing out isn't a good option but I do always anchor with sailing out in mind of course. The northhill actually has 10 feet of chain and some line on it cuz it's my stern emergancy anchor, quick deploy.
 
#95 ·
I don't have an engine so motoring out of situations isn't an option, and often sailing out isn't a good option but I do always anchor with sailing out in mind of course.
Can you describe anchoring without a motor, or point me to an article that describes it? I've only been sailing three years, and rarely use the outboards on our club boats (J/22s). I've sailed in/out of the marina and slips; though if it's busy I will have the motor on and idling when I come just in case - not pressing my luck with only three years of experience and a few dozen powerboats fueled by cheap beer and testosterone.

I've thought about anchoring without a motor - I took sailing lessons because I like thing that move without motors. Do you lower from the bow and then let the main in/out to control your speed as the boat swings around? How would you set two anchors under sail?
 
#4 ·
My boat came w/a 45# cqr, hinge worn out, and rusty but never any problems w/moderate anchoring w/tide changes for a couple of years now.
I just bought a 45# Manson supreme as primary anchor.
Also, I want to get a bigger anchor for trop stroms/h-canes if I have to move from the dock and can't relocate the boat out of the way. My boat is a 10ton 40'er, thinking about a bigger rocna/manson 55#,65#...but kept off the boat, used in emergency.
On the other hand, I am thinking(hoping) the 45#er Manson would be fine on 200' of chain in a protected area(mud sand bottom), even for the worst blow.
 
#9 ·
See that's what I mean, I think 45 pounds is to small for a 40 footer, I think you should have 60 pound danforth on your bow with 100 of 1/2 inch chain, you'll sleep better, and so will the dudes down wind of you.
 
#7 ·
I started out as a broke sailor with a broken engine and then evolved into purist. Once you've sailed as long and far as I have with no engine it becomes almost like an addiction. And a healthy ground tackle supply is essential. It's been my insurance for over 20 years. I don't drag, I used to, but I haven't in a long long time. and Ive been anchored out for about 8000 day's! in all conditions, all over the Caribbean and the Bahamas and Fla.
 
#6 ·
I like big, what most consider "oversized" anchors. My boat is 28 feet, my primary anchor is a 50 pound CQR, with 100 feet of 5/8 chain. I don't drag, set it and forget it. My second anchor or "lunch hook" is 35 pound Danforth with 30 feet of 3/8 chain and 100 feet of 1/2 inch, 3 strand. My storm anchor, that is stored in an aft Lazzerette is a 70 pound Danforth that I put on the 5/8 chain. ...............
Have you considered using the new generation anchors... you know, Mansons, Spades or perhaps even Rocnas now that they have officially downgraded their steel and will build it to that classification?
 
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#11 ·
Slowly and infrequently, A lot of sliding, grunting, cursing, And I use my legs, oh. and one at a time of course. Once they are on deck, I roll them to the bow. to get them up, I dive down, un shackle, tie a line and lift in a sitting postion useing my legs and the mechanical advantage of the bow roller.
 
#12 · (Edited)
I spend a great deal of time on the sea bottom with my anchors. every day. I know how,what and where they are sitting.. I set them by hand and if I don't like the bottom condition I move. I try to never anchor in deeper than 15 feet, and only use the sentinals when it's 30 feet, which is rare. Yes, I need a windless, but I will say' I'm strong from all the hauling but use more technique than brute strength.
 
#14 ·
I think scope is more or just as important as weight. I coastal cruise and anchor for no more than 3 to 5 nights before moving on. My 25 lbs danforth is my primary. I have never dragged. I do pay close attention to the weather before heading out. That being said I plan on buying a Rocna or Manson this summer before I do more extensive cruising this fall.
 
#19 · (Edited)
In my oppinion that pearson is a heavy boat and a 25 pounder is seriously under sized by half. I mean no disrespect and to each his own. But I hope you consider up sizing when you are shopping. If you have windless, why buy one of these light, fancy things. I can see if you hand raise why they are popular. In Belize we have these things called Biama's, the wind comes down out of the mountains at 40 knots. It goes from 0 to 40 in a second, and from the side. It's bumper boat night in Placencia when that happens.
 
#15 ·
I take a good look at the weather as well. Out main anchor is a Delta fast set. Its unique shank profile and ballasted tip make the Delta anchor self-launching. The low centre of gravity and self-righting geometry ensure that the Delta anchor will set immediately. Consistent and reliable in performance, the Delta anchor has Lloyd's Register Type Approval as a High Holding Power anchor and is specified as the primary anchor used by numerous National Lifeboat organisations. Also available in premium grade Duplex/High Tensile stainless. DO YOU LIKE THE COPY AND PASTE???
 
#17 ·
We have a 75 lb CQR with 200 feet of 1/2" chain on our 54ft - 20 ton. These anchors do not have good reputations for setting and I do believe that many never actually get them set, but just swing around the chain pile they laid on the ocean floor.

However, we do get ours set, almost always on the first attempt. I've wondered if the heavier CQRs set better than the lighter ones I've seen tested. What I don't trust, however, is that it would reset itself if we spun around 180 degrees in a good blow overnight. One of these days, I am going to upgrade to the newest generation anchors.

When we drop most of the chain, the weight of it all is probably similar to many mooring blocks. It must be pushing 1,000 lbs. Any wind under 10 or 12 knots and she just won't move, set or not. It is impressive to be anchored in 25 knots and see that chain stretched and think of the stress it takes, which I did see just a few weeks ago.
 
#20 ·
I agree that all-chain anchor rode is the answer with the CQR. Big ships and naval moorings rely on the catenary curve of the chain as much as weight of the anchors - few anchors drag when the pull is straight along the bottom! We have a 45lb Kingston Plow (Canadian CQR copy) with 150 feet of 3/8 chain on our 9 ton Hunter 37 cutter. We used to sometimes have trouble setting it on a chain & rope rode, but after installing a windlass and all-chain, we never fail to get hooked. I also have a 45 lb Danforth and plan to add a Bruce (one of the most popular anchors around our waters).
 
#18 · (Edited)
Well, I just aquired an outboard for my dingy, but it's to small for any heavy weather, I have used it for light wind manuvering on the hip, and to set anchors. Scope is important, very. I oversized my anchor by a fluke ( no pun intended) A friend needed some money so I gave her 100 bucks for the big CQR and the 5/8 chain and fell in love with it. Before that my primary was the 35 pound danforth and the 3/8 set up, but I never slept well, worried while ashore and drug occasionaly. One time in Key West, I was anchored a little too close to the World Cup Ciggerette Boat race course. I had spent the night in town and in the morning, I saw the Coast Guard out on my boat trying to raise my Big anchor, which I'm glad was deployed because it was blowing 30 pluss. They couldn't do it for lack of technique, so they disconnected it and cast off and towed me to a city mooring. I wrote a letter and complaimed and they replaced it with a 25 pound Danforth and and some dinky little chain. They went by some book on size suggestions. The first time I hung that anchor up on something I bent it. When I got it up it looked like a pretzle and the chain links had seperated. I finally located my big anchor the next week on a transect dive. My 15 foot Boston Whaler has a 25 pound anchor as I dive out of it a lot and want to know it's there when I get back. My 40 foot dive boat has 40 pound danforth which has a bent fluke, too small. it's a lunch hook only. Those deltas and such are great untill it really blows and it drags a little and then hangs on some debris or a rock ledge, you'll bend it. I have a versatile inventory of anchors for the different bottoms I encounter.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Thats true. My point is I put out more than recomended. I don't really ever know If it's 10 or 13 feet, or care. I sight the anchor rhode angle and make my decsion on scope based on how abtuse the angle is. I want that thing running staight out and not straight down.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Thats a lot of work Capt.Aaron
Get a good big modern anchor. Problem sorted.
Crusing is supposed to fun
Generally it's not a lot of work. I sail in, drop my oversized CQR and 100 feet of 5/8 chain and done. I'm sipping on my cocktail while the cruising couple is over there yelling at each other, setting and re-setting. I snorkle out and check it before I have a second drink and sleep well. In the morning I raise my sail and pick up the chain as I sail up on it and, up come's the anchor. I'm a mile a long while the cruising couple is motoring up on the anchor, pointing and yelling over the engine.
 
#25 · (Edited)
The other factor is technique. Growing up cruising with Gran pa in the Key's and Bahamas, we would constantly see a boat, ( usually power) pull in to the anchorage and A. drop the hook while still moving forward B. drop while heading down wind C. drop a bunch of chain on top of it's self. D. all of the above. I know I'm preaching to choir here when I say we need to be heading in to the prodominent force be it current or wind, be at a complete stop or moving slightly back when we gently lay down the anchor and let out the rhode straight. Experienced Cruisers know this, but If I had a nickle for every time I've seen a bare boat charter ( usually a Hunter passage) drop there hook heading down wind at 3 knt.s I could retire. Otoh, you know that thing is dug in when it catches and whip's the boat around.
 
#27 ·
Wow,

That's a lot of anchors and what sounds like a lot of work. I supposed that if you will be anchored over night it's the right thing to do and I'm sure you sleep better because of it.

On my current boat (O'day 35) I used to carry a 33 lb claw with 30' of chain and a 30 lb danforth with 10' of chain. Both were on the bow, the danforth in the anchor locker and the claw on deck or on the roller. Then, I realized that in 5+ years I've been sailing this boat, that I have spent a total of 2 nights at anchor. So this year I took the claw (with the chain and rode) home and just have the danforth in the locker. The boat sails better and so far I have anchored 3 times for a total of about 2 hours.

If I go somewhere where I think I'll be anchored out (not likely) I'll bring the claw back on board.

Most of my anchoring is to stop for lunch and a swim. This will be in protected water, in fair weather, for a relatively short time.

Barry
 
#55 ·
Wow,

That's a lot of anchors and what sounds like a lot of work. I supposed that if you will be anchored over night it's the right thing to do and I'm sure you sleep better because of it.

On my current boat (O'day 35) I used to carry a 33 lb claw with 30' of chain and a 30 lb danforth with 10' of chain. Both were on the bow, the danforth in the anchor locker and the claw on deck or on the roller. Then, I realized that in 5+ years I've been sailing this boat, that I have spent a total of 2 nights at anchor. So this year I took the claw (with the chain and rode) home and just have the danforth in the locker. The boat sails better and so far I have anchored 3 times for a total of about 2 hours.

If I go somewhere where I think I'll be anchored out (not likely) I'll bring the claw back on board.

Most of my anchoring is to stop for lunch and a swim. This will be in protected water, in fair weather, for a relatively short time.

Barry
I'm refering back to this post because it seems to be a common thought process. "Well, I seldom anchor and the weather should be good and my engine has never failed so I'll leave my spare at home"
The moment you leave a dock, you need to be able to anchor in a hury, especially in tight, confined areas, That engine dies for what ever reason you need to deploy, and if for some reason that first anchor doesn't catch you need to toss out a second and quick. " it wasn't suposed to blow like this today, and here I am with a dead engine on a lee shore with nothing but a lunch hook." Back to the 7 P's. And though sometimes we plan a 3 hour tour, it could very well turn in to an "overnighter" untill a tow can get to you.
 
#28 · (Edited)
My point is I have one oversized anchor and chain, so 90% of the time, I drop that and relax. The other anchors are at my disposal If I decide I need them. The reason I can have fun cruising is because when I'm hiking to the water fall or out on the town in some cool port. I'm only slightly thinking about what's happening when the weather changes and I'm 4 hours from the boat. If I'm having dinner with my wife in cafe and a sqaul rolls through, she look's at me and ask's if the boat is o.k., I say "ya, I knew we might be gone for a while and I hooked up the 70 lb danforth." It's a little work that's worth so much.
 
#29 · (Edited)
From my perspective, these kinds of discussions boil down to acceptable level of risk. When I started thinking again about anchors and more specifically, the so-called 'next generation anchors', I had hoped that these new anchor designs might really be more efficient designs, by which I mean greater holding power and reliability for a given weight. Since I typically sail on and off the anchor, and often single-hand, I want an reliable anchor that I can also handle easily.

When I began to evaluate the so-called 'next generation anchors', I found that they had to be wildly heavier than the anchors that I had been using. I concluded that if they need that much weight to generate adequate holding for a boat of my boat's size and weight, it seemed like these newer designed anchors must be a comparatively inefficient designs compared to the WW II era designs that I currently use.

To put that statement into perspective, my current ground tackle consists of a primary anchor, which is a Danforth 13 lb Deepset, my Storm anchor, which is a Danforth 20 lb hi-tensile, and I have a 21 lb Fortress FX 37 as a back up. A next gen anchor would be closer to 35-45 lbs.

I can handle my current anchors without a windlass, they fit through the bow pulpit (except the fortress), so they can be stowed securely within their assigned lockers when stowed under sail, the Fortress being partially knocked down.

In fairness, in a conversation with one of the ‘next gen anchor’ manufacturers, it became clear that these new anchors are designed and have published holding numbers which are based on a higher margin of safety in their worst holding conditions, which coincidentally is the predominant bottom condition around here.

But even so, it seems to me, it would make no sense to increase the weight of my anchors when my current compliment of anchors are 1/2 to 2/3rds the weight of these newer and are still only rated for a boat of my size and weight. Especially since my current anchors all hold well in whatever bottom that I have tried them on (soft mud, sand, hard clay), except early spring leaves, and even there they pretty well matched the heavier anchors on friends' boats around me. My 13 lb deepset Danforth with a 20 lb kellet shackled to 40 feet of chain and a couple hundred feet of nylon rode survived the 60 knot gusts of a partially spent hurricane (albeit in a moderately sheltered river) without dragging.

At some level, even discounting for the larger safety factors, if the numbers are even close to right for my boat, there is a part of me that feels like these new anchors should more accurately be called "the Generation Before Last Anchors", since they have seemingly gone so far backward in efficiency.

And the idea of adding a windlass or worse yet trying to handle a 35 or 45 lb anchor without one, is really not something that I visualize doing, which is mostly about being 62 years old and not getting any younger and the purposely simple forms of cruising that I tend to do.

For years I have been thinking about anchor design, and more specifically thinking about what my ideal anchor would look like. I would call this the perfect coastal cruiser anchor rather than the perfect world cruiser anchor. My ideal anchor would be a mix of metals to keep weight down. My thought is that that portions of the anchor need to be abrasion resistant and hold a reasonably sharp edge, while other parts of the anchor only need to be strong enough to hold in the bottom.

If I were designing my "ideal anchor" it would have a steel or stainless steel frame. That frame would include a removable and replaceable tip or snout, which would be reasonably sharp, and hardened to enter the bottom. The snout would form the leading edge of anchor in contact with the bottom and would be mounted at the end of a "keel" which would be an integral part of the frame.

The Keel would be curved so that the snout was aimed downward in order to pull the flukes into the bottom. The back end of the keel would turn slightly downward and have a flat area that behaved like the equivalent of a Fortress 'mud palm'. The keel would also serve to stiffen and weight the flukes.

From the back of the keel, the rest of the steel frame portion of the anchor would curve back on itself and attach to the tiller bar (shaft) where the rode (and recovery penant) would be attached.

The flukes and roll bar would then be aluminum to keep the weight a little more managable and to help concentrate the weight lower in the anchor where it is needed. If the flukes are aluminum, they can have a larger fluke area than if they were steel, and that would mean better holding in soft mud and sugar sand. The roll bar could be tubular for greater stiffness to weight, and would be configured to act as a strut stiffening the edges of the flukes. It would also be nice if the anchor could quickly be broken down and laid flat for storage in a locker on a long passage.

I know that there are issues about dissimilar metals and stainless steel's performance under water which would have to be considered in the design. I also know there is a bias in the yachting community against anchors which can be disassembled, but that is mostly amongst the recent 'world cruiser mindset" community. Historically anchors were designed to fold and no one complained.
 
#30 ·
My favorite anchor is my Bronze folding fisherman. I like it so much I never use it. Jeff, I'm glad that you can get by with those tiny anchors, I would never in a million years leave my boat or go to sleep sitting on 16 lb. any thing. Or 20 for that matter. Raising a 35 Danforth by hand is not difficult. But that's the beauty of setting up our own stuff, we can do it as we see fit. If I'm helping a newbe, I brain wash 'em to believing my philosophy of over sized primary anchors and I believe the anchorage is a safer place because of it. It's hard to argue that a smaller or lighter anchor is better for anything. Like many thing's in life, when it comes to anchors, size does matter.
 
#34 ·
Jeff - I have two Rocna 25s (55#s). You're welcome to try one anytime I'm not out cruising. I don't worry about a secondary anchor much around the Bay.

It's not just the weight of anchor and chain - it's the break-out force, and all the mud that comes up with the anchor.

For the plow and spoon (new generation anchors from Rocna, Manson, Spade, and Raya) weight is good. The setting performance of the Spade aluminum and steel models makes that pretty clear.

Even with two big anchors and a lot of chain forward Auspicious sits above her design lines forward so I don't worry much about weight forward. Even in cruising mode (I use the v-berth for storage) we're about 3" clear of Frer's lines forward. Only 1" aft.

On topic, I'm very impressed with the new generation anchors. I have a lot of personal experience with CQR, Bruce, Delta, Fortress, Rocna, and Spade.

For my use profile, Rocna/Spade are definitely the way to go for holding the boat. I use a small Fortress for the dinghy.
 
#35 ·
You asked for some discussion, so...

I want to have a primary anchor that will hold my boat securely in 90% of the situations that I'm ever going to see. And then a secondary anchor that I can add for that other 10% of situations. I wouldn't second-guess anyone who also wants to carry a lunch hook, and a reasonably sized stern anchor. More than that, though, and I think you are carrying a lot of weight that adds no practical benefit.

No offense, but unless your 28-footer is WAAAAY more heavy than the average 28-footer, I think a 50 lbs. anchor is too much. A 30 or 35 lbs. anchor would be a lot easier to manage, and would hold your boat in any reasonable anchorage, even in very high winds. An additional 20 lbs. anchor that you could use for extreme conditions, or as a stern anchor when you wanted one, would cover it all. And, frankly, even these numbers are a bit on the high side--for most 28' boats a 25 lbs. primary and 15 lbs. secondary would be plenty.

But that's just my opinion. It is obvious that you are comfortable with the way you are doing things and will not change your mind. That's fine. You're welcome to carry all the anchor that you want, and I will carry all the anchor that I want.
 
#36 · (Edited)
Denverdon,
Certainly... My 28 footer was built in '65. It's a bit heavier. I don't think there is such a thing as too big, only too small. Well, too big to carry of course. If a 35 is good enough, why not add 15 pounds and make it more than enough. From 1978 to 1994 the boat sailed with 2, 35 pound anchors and a boat length of chain on each. It was good enough most of the time, but that's not good enough. I keep an anchor ready for quick deploy in a cockpit laz. That's my (OH SH!T) anchor. The 70 pound storm anchor stowed low in the aft laz is my boat insurance. I've been so glad I had that thing on several occasions. ( Huricane Gorges for example) The boat has been anchored out 90% of the time since 1990 in many countries and conditions. I like to be ready for the worst and hope for the best. My boat has nothing on it, no inboard, nothing but light weight wood interior, nothing stowed above the water line. I have room to add the weight of something as crucial as ground tackle. I wrote earlier what I did to a 25 pound anchor. The coast gaurd read somewhere that 25 pounds was sufficiant, I bent that thing like it was butter. I've bent a few 35 danforths as well. When a big blow is coming and I dump that 70 pounder in the drink, I laugh. I've had people around when I do it and when they see it splash, it all makes sense. One time in Belize we were preparing for a 3 day inland expedition with some fellow cruisers and when they saw me pull that thing out they were more than envious of the peace of mind I would have. Kind of like Crockadile Dundee, "that's not a knife, THIS is a knife."
 
#39 ·
If a 35 is good enough, why not add 15 pounds and make it more than enough.
Because it is extra weight that makes the anchor more expensive and more difficult to handle. If there is no upside to the extra weight then it is pointless and foolish to accept the downside.

But hey! If a 50 lbs. anchor is good then a 150 lbs. anchor should be even better. And if a 150 lbs. anchor is even better then why stop there? Get yourself a 30-ton surplus navy anchor off of an aircraft carrier. I'm pretty sure that would make a perfect lunch hook for your little sailboat!
 
#37 ·
Lets see, I just bought a 9 lb lewmar fast set with 5' of 3/8" bbb chain, 200' of 7/16" 3 strand for a 6500 lb, 28' on deck boat, 25' WL 29.5' OAL........ betcha the captn will be liken that setup!

BUT, if one wants to disCUSS anchors and types, one also need to disCUSS the conditions they will set in, ie soil below, winds, protection etc. If I was going to be in a Hurricane, ie 60-80 knots of wind, "NO" I would not use the above anchor pkg. But for winds under 20 knots, when racing, wind might die, one needs and anchor to keep the current from grounding you out, it will work just fine. It will also work to slow you down while you bring up a bigger anchor from below. IE it also meets the local min anchor at ready race specs. Which is (LOA/17)cubed, or about 5.5 lbs in my case. Total pkg is (LOA squared/80) or 11.25 lbs........some of the class's require a 2nd anchor equal to or bigger than the one always at the ready on the bow.

So with this in mind, yes I do have a 7.5KG bruce, with 15' of 1/4 chain, toying with going to a 10Kg and 25-30' of 5/16" as my overnight weekend setup, with 250 or so feet of 5/8" 3 strand. ALong with, I would not dare to anchor in 15' of water, I might only be in 1' of water over the next 6-7 hours! Depending upon where in the tide you are, ie high or low, you need to know what the other will do, ie if a 12' current high is going on, the next LOW is -4, which happens around here in the puget sound.......you're grounded if you start in 15'! an hour or two or three ago!

30' is the lowest I would anchor in frankly around here, just so I have at least 15' at LOW tide!

Not that I am trying to say that aaron is wrong or right......if he does has to deal with hurricanes, then I can see having a BIG anchor for those times. I would probably do as Jeff, get a BIG alum fortress or equal, appropriate chain length and size for the conditions I would do. Otherwise, not sure a danforth where I am is my cup o tea! I'll take a claw/bruce/spade style for around here, which is the most popular, not to say danforth are not popular........

marty
 
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