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Alcohol Stove - Non-Pressurized

10K views 30 replies 18 participants last post by  SlowButSteady 
#1 ·
I currently have an older Princess alcohol pressurized pump up stove. I want to replace it it and do not want to go to propane. I am considering the non-pressurized 2 burner type of stove. I have looked at the Cookmate and Origo stoves on line at Defender. The salesperson new nothing about them. The Origo was $130 more. Can anyone tell me what they think of these stoves
and which one they prefer. I really don't cook much but want something
easy to use and safe. Any info would be helpful. Thanks. Charlie
 
#2 ·
I love my Origo. Like you I'm not a fan of propane, there is a world of difference between pressurized stoves and the Origo type.

Never had or seen a cookmate so I'm afraid I can't comment on which is better. Considering the price difference I might just go with the cookmate. They are fairly simple devices.
 
#3 ·
I have an Origo that works great. I've never seen a Cookmate stove "in person", but as far as I can tell the differences between the Origo and Cookmate are pretty trivial/cosmetic. I have seen a couple of reviews of the Cookmate that essentially say the same thing. Other than the price, they seem to be functionally identical.
 
#4 ·
Before owning my current boat, I had always used propane, diesel or solid fuel (wood). Having had an Origo for 4 years now and cooking many hundreds of meals on it, I am very satisfied. It is very safe provided that you take it up on deck to fill it and wipe up whatever you spill. It is very cheap to run, we get about 50 days of cruising per gallon of alcohol which is $10-15.

There are only 2 things that I feel a propane stove does better. The first is that a propane stove will boil a really big pot of water faster but as long as you are not cooking for 8, this is not an issue. The other is that you don't get great control trying to turn the flame way down to just keep something warm.

Unless you love cooking or live aboard and cook all the time, I think that the non-pressurized alcohol stoves provide the best bang for your buck. They are totally unlike pressurized ones.
 
#8 ·
Go Kero!

As an alternative, may I suggest to take your old alcohol stove and convert it to kerosene. It will likely only require changing of the jets.

Kerosene is the ideal cooking fuel in a marine environment. It is much safer than alcohol and MUCH safer than propane. Higher energy contents, worldwide availability, nearly unlimited storage life, low cost, ... And let nobody tell you it smells. Properly vaporized kerosene burns without any smell.

Only downside compared to propane is that you have to preheat for 3 minutes, so the galley is not exactly like in your home kitchen. I actually like it that way, makes me aware that I am on my yacht. Compared to pressurized alcohol, I see no downside at all.

I find it amazing that people use any other cooking fuel on a boat.
 
#10 ·
Kerosene is pretty much like diesel. It essentially does not evaporate by itself, unlike alcohol or gasoline. Therefore, it does not burn unless either vaporized (under pressure in a heated burner) or wicked (in an oil lamp).

If you spill kerosene, feel free to hold a match to it, it will not burn. Don't try this with alcohol!
 
#11 ·
I had an Origo 3000 on my Catalina 27, it worked like a charm, filling the canisters was easy if you used a funnel, and much safer than trying to fill them directly from the Alcohol can. The cost of grain alcohol, however, is ridiculous - about $30 per gallon, more in some locations. By current boat has propane, a 20-pound tank that has three valves for safety, including a solenoid valve attached to the sniffer. The cost of propane is also ridiculous, but it's still a lot less than alcohol.

Gary :cool:
 
#13 · (Edited)
...The cost of grain alcohol, however, is ridiculous - about $30 per gallon, more in some locations....
Even at WestMarine, SLX Denatured Alcohol is only about half that price. And, you can usually find it a few bucks cheaper at your local hardware or paint store. Still not cheap, but not $30/gal either.
 
#12 ·
I had propane on my old boat and had no issues with it.

On my new boat I have an Origo stove with oven. I was a little sceptical about cooking with alcohol.

When I used the left-over marine alcohol that was on the boat, I wasn't dissatisfied but I did notice a difference in cooking times.

I looked into the heat output of some different fuels.

I don't remember the numbers but I do remember that:

  • Isopropyl alcohol has the highest BTU output but leaves a sooty residue.
  • Ethanol (grain alcohol) has a good BTU output, but is very hard to get in its pure form and must be de-natured in order to be sold as a cooking fuel. This de-naturing involves blending the ethanol with another alcohol to make it un-drinkable. The ethanol is de-natured by the addition of either isopropyl or methanol.
  • Methanol (wood alcohol) has the least BTU output of the three. It is very inexpensive and sometimes used as a cooking fuel under the name methyl hydrate.
So ideally you want a fuel that is Ethanol de-natured with a small proportion of isopropyl. I think 10% isopropyl seems to be standard.

I looked into some prices on line and see that you can get some for as little as $22.00 per gallon (Captain Phab) it is a 90-10 Ethanol (I don't know what the 10% portion is but I think it's methanol). I haven't been able to find that kind of price in real life. Usually it's around $12 -$13 per litre (quart).

I found BioFlame at Canadian Tire for $26.00 per gallon. It is Ethanol de-natured with isopropyl making it burn hotter.

I found that I couldn't get the temp in my oven past 350F with the Captain Phab, but burnt my muffins with the BioFlame when the temp topped out at 450F.

I also found that boiling water, making coffee etc. are much faster with the BioFlame.

So the bottom line for me is: I like the alcohol. I don't feel I'm missing much in the heat department.

A downside is that the alcohol tends to evapourate even when the stove isn't being used so I took to estimating the amount I needed to fill the reservoir in order to cook whatever it is I'm cooking.

I've spent as much on cooking fuel as I have on diesel this season.
 
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#14 ·
I have heard people complain about the cost of alcohol but have never found it to be true. I don't think that I have ever paid more than $15 for a gallon. That gallon typically lasts us about 50 days of cruising which really isn't bad.

If you are in the situation of installing something totally new, alcohol will be on the order of $1k cheaper which will buy an awful lot of alcohol. At the very least, I think that it would be really difficult to justify making the switch to propane for cost reasons unless you run the stove practically continuously.

I have not yet had the chance to cruise with alcohol outside of the continental US so I don't know whether there are supply issues anywhere.
 
#15 ·
We have been cooking on a Cookmate two burner non-pressurized alcohol stove for the past three seasons and we both love the stove. We have always used the marine grade alcohol purchased in marine stores just to make certian we're getting the best fuel for this stove. The stove is very low maintenance, easy to use, reliable and safe. For two people, the stove is more than adequate to serve our cooking needs.
 
#17 ·
We use Kero Taylors and heat the burners with Denatured Alc. I recently purchased a quart can at my local ACE Hardware and paid $4.99. I am sure that it is cheaper yet by the gallon there, but we only need a small amount, in a smaller container, on-board.
 
#18 ·
I have had no problem cooking on our alcohol stove powered with methyl hydrate. Been doing it for five seasons. Use about five gallons per season, at $12-14/gallon (Home Hardware, in the paint section) Flyboy is right, there are slightly hotter fuels, but, as he has pointed out, sometimes you get more heat than you can use- nobody likes to have their buns scorched. I can't speak to the baking aspect, but i can say that for general boiling, frying, sauteing and overall stovetop use, we dig being alkies.
 
#19 ·
Try that BioFlame from Crappy Tire. I've converted a couple of Meth-heads from my marina. It burns about 30% hotter (faster) than methyl hydrate. More heat=faster coffee in the morning!
 
#23 ·
Not sure where you are located, but if you're anywhere near the Chesapeake and are interested, I have a 2 burner , alkie stove and oven with the tank out of my '81 Islander - its in near new condition. We don't plan to do much more than grill on the rail in our boat and opted for the space in the galley for a fridge instead - feel free to send a note if you're interested.
 
#24 ·
"How is kerosene safer than alcohol? "
The invisible flame from alcohol is blamed for causing more boating fires than any other single cause, IIRC. Because of the way that alcohol vapors will catch, and the invisible spread once they do catch, it becomes way more dangerous than it might seem to be.
Personally I think unpressurized alcohol is about the same as a Sterno can, a chafing dish heater. I can send out for tea before it will boil the water to make it.

And the stench of kero, "water white cooking grade" or otherwise, makes me seasick.

So if I can't cook with propane, CNG, LPG, whatever, I'll opt for a single-burner butane cooker and just try very hard not to blow myself up with it. Or eat cold food.

Alcohol stove? I'll eat cold food or order take-out.
 
#25 ·
If your kero stove or oven stinks, you are doing something wrong. Properly vaporized kerosene is odorless.

This is not the case for oil lamps, if you burn kero in them, it has a pretty strong smell. And, of course, there is a 'stench' if you spill the stuff, but that is something I would categorize under 'operator error.

But look at the bright side: if you spill butane (propane, ...), smell is likely to be the least of your worries.
 
#26 ·
"kerosene is odorless. "
Yes, I've heard a number of people including Mercedes shop managers say that. It appears to be said more often by mechanics than biologists, who would suggest that some of us simply have more sensitive noses, and some of us can smell and taste things that others literally cannot. (There are genetic differences.)
Never met anyone who could actually prove that "properly" combusted kero or diesel had no stink.

Sure, any fuel spill can explode. Including kero and diesel. That's what fuels are supposed to do, they explode. Sometimes in a more controlled or more surprising fashion than at other times. The most powerful conventional bombs in existance are ANFO, fuel-air bombs based on, you guessed it, nice safe diesel fuel.

If you want safety, you don't cook on flames. Look at all the home fires started in the kitchen. Boat fires started in the galley. Fuel? Yup, pretty much supposed to explode.
 
#27 · (Edited)
"kerosene is odorless. "
Yes, I've heard a number of people including Mercedes shop managers say that. It appears to be said more often by mechanics than biologists, who would suggest that some of us simply have more sensitive noses, and some of us can smell and taste things that others literally cannot. (There are genetic differences.)
Never met anyone who could actually prove that "properly" combusted kero or diesel had no stink.
OK, I am not aware of a double-blind test either but it seems easy to do such a study (Mainesail???). It is certainly possible that there are genetic differences but I think it is more likely that people compare apples (clean vaporizer operation) with oranges (spilled fuel and/or combustion in a wicked lamp).

All I can say is that I strongly smell my anchor lamp when I use kero in it, but I don't smell my kero stove at all when it is burning.

Sure, any fuel spill can explode. Including kero and diesel. That's what fuels are supposed to do, they explode. Sometimes in a more controlled or more surprising fashion than at other times. The most powerful conventional bombs in existance are ANFO, fuel-air bombs based on, you guessed it, nice safe diesel fuel.
That is incorrect. You are right that any FUEL can explode, including kerosene and diesel. Or, for that matter, such things as wheat flour. But not every fuel SPILL can explode. To make diesel or kero explode, you need very specific conditions of heat and pressure that you will never find when you spill it. Like inside a diesel engine or in a fuel bomb. Or inside a medieval flour mill before people understood such things as air-suspended solids and rather attributed mill explosions to the devil that surely must be in such new-fangled devices as wind mills.

You will be faced with a clean-up job if you spill your bag of King Arthur whole-wheat flour. In the case of kero or diesel you will, in addition, experience a petrochemical smell.

But in none of these cases will there be danger of an explosion.
 
#28 ·
So if I can't cook with propane, CNG, LPG, whatever, I'll opt for a single-burner butane cooker and just try very hard not to blow myself up with it. Or eat cold food.

I have a butane cooker and have to admit that i try very hard not to blow myself up everytime I cook. I find with my steamer I can cook for 5 minutes, shut it off for 15 and my dinner is perfectly cooked, I feel like 7 minues is the max you can safely cook on Butane, the smaller diamiter your pot the better :)
 
#29 ·
Medieval flour mill?

Grain mill explosion under investigation by officials, company

Apparently ConAgra blew up a modern grain mill just two years ago.

By all means, enjoy your kero stove. Some of us have no issues with bottled gasses. Perhaps every kero burner I've met has been improperly adjusted or fueled, and yours in the only one with no odor. Perhaps. And perhaps bottled gasses are always unsafe.

Once you convince me of that, I'll get the USCG to make "flaming cooking appliances" totally illegal on all vessels, as a safety hazard. All of them. Hey, no one needs hot food on a boat.
 
#30 ·
Medieval flour mill?

Grain mill explosion under investigation by officials, company

Apparently ConAgra blew up a modern grain mill just two years ago.
"Investigators found that a poorly trained operator dropped a bowl containing about 2 cups of all purpose flour, leading to the dangerous spill which caused the violent explosion."

By all means, enjoy your kero stove. Some of us have no issues with bottled gasses. Perhaps every kero burner I've met has been improperly adjusted or fueled, and yours in the only one with no odor. Perhaps.
Yes, perhaps. If that is the case, I won't complain. I don't really care if yours, or someone else's burner stinks as long as mine doesn't.

I don't really care either if someone blows himself up with leaked gas in his bilges, or burns his boat to the waterline with alcohol, as long as it is not close to my boat.
 
#31 ·
I was wondering where all the propane junkies were hiding.
 
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