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Old 10-12-2012
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Re: Opposition to liveaboards

Joe, Joe say it aint so

You have made classic assumptions of facts not in evidence and let your preconcieved sterotypes of what a yacht club member and a live aboard cruiser colour your thinking to the point where you have extrapolated that the discussion and difference in opinions are class warefare. You are way off base here

Quote:
And make me ask myself HOW they have arrived at there positions and I keep coming back to their life experiences and economic standing which I believe are entwined when a person goes through life and certainly expresses the differences in the un-official class warfare in our culture.joethecobbler
First of all let me say that Wingnwing and her husband and my wife and I are good friends, part of a close knit sailing group in the Chesapeake and have gotten together socially over 10 times. We enjoy each others company, stories, share recipies, knowledge and a great amount of laughter together. I have the UTMOST respect for her and her opinons and live vicariously through her when they go to the Carribean most years. She is my mentor in some respects and has a wealth of sailing experience and life knowledge as does her husband. They are active memebers on many groups includding SCCA and in the community. A number of us in our sailing community here would like to have seen her asked to become a moderator on Sailnet because she represents to quintessential facillitator and would help to bring people together with her wealth of knowledge, experience, and positive demeanor. I can tell you there is no " class warfare" between us no do we look at each other as in different classes. She and I both abhor and prejudices in life and have actively worked in society to prevent them. Please do not bring that into the intellectual discussion she and I were contributing to and make it about that. You took a leap into the unknown here on the internet and as one of my favorite says on Law and Order goes...presented facts not in evidence.

Lets start about our facilities. I belong to the oldest YC on the Chesapeake. It has a long tradition and has been FINANCIALLY solvent for over 106 years now. It does not discriminate in choosing its membership. Each of the 114 memebers ( slipholders) is a voting member of the club. We have elected Boards which run and govern the club, watch and control over the finances, and make policy decisions concerning the club. We hire a staff of 5 FT and 15 PT employees including a professional chef, a facilities manager, an accounting clerk, supervised by a general manager who also sells banquets. We are a not for profit corporation. The Board which I have volunteered for at various times has the responsibility for keeping the club solvent as well as setting the policies of the club. I am not sure what your preconcieved notions are about Yacht Clubs, but they are all as different as there are people on the Earth and they shouldnt be lumped together. We volunteer for some of the committees and boards of the club to keep it running which in a marinia this is done strictlky by the owner., Yes we have our token "officers running aroiund in uniformns" who take care of the social as well as the traditional aspects of the club. They are seperate from the financial aspects which are run like a business. The YC belongs to a larger association of YC both on the Chessie (25) and nationawide which lets us when we travel or they travel have reciprocity, reduced slip rates, safe port in a storm, and a friendly place when we travel with our boat to NE as well as when my wife and I have chartered in California.

Wingng belongs to a very prestigous marinia in presitigous downtown Annapolis one of the prime location spots in all of the East Coast for sailing. It also is a working yard and has many yacht brokerages present there. It has facilities second to none. While we are a small YC with a pool, showers, fuel dock, clubhouse.....their facility is ours times 10. It is owned by a private money making corporation and the slipholders like wingnwing have no say in policies or rates of the marinia.

Suffice it to say in your implied class warefare comment. A 60x16 slip in my club costs $2200 yearlly and a similar one in Wingnwings would be over $7800 per year. Even with the added member dues of $1000 and the restaurant chit of $1000 it would cost us twice as much to stay wingnwings facility with no say in anything. We chose to stay where we were somewhat because of the double the cost in her facility. Our fees have not increased in three years because of our "good stewardship" in running our club. This in spite of declining membership due to the economy. We have increased our number of outside catering events which has helped us financially.

Quote:
And make me ask myself HOW they have arrived at there positions and I keep coming back to their life experiences and economic standing which I believe are entwined when a person goes through life and certainly expresses the differences in the un-official class warfare in our culture.-joethecobbler
What exactly does this mean?

Our club voted to allow 10% liveaboards a few years ago after doing a thorough financial impact analysis as well as looking at the benefits of having people there year round. During 3-4 months of the year it was virtually closed and this changed its dynamics. Our decison was based STRICTLY on this and not by some "life experiences and economic standing" as you have stated. I am partly responsible to maintain the financial viability of the club of 100 years with my vote thats all. If you read the thread carefully you will see that wingnwing agree on this responsibility and that we also agree that the figure of the percentage should not be set arbitrarily by the county but should be looked at on a case by case basis at each facility.

Quote:
But as the country singer who's name I cannot recall says- I could be wrong.
Just sayin' -joethecobbler
You are dead wrong and have allowed your own sterotypes to intervene into your reasoning. Look before you leap next time and make statemtns about class warefare which are devisive and help perpetuate sterotypes.
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Last edited by chef2sail; 10-12-2012 at 09:30 AM.
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