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HMS Bounty in trouble...

278K views 2K replies 105 participants last post by  PCP 
#1 ·
The HMS Bounty is a tall ship that was built in Nova Scotia in 1961 for the MGM movie "Mutiny on the Bounty", starring Marlon Brando...she appears to be in trouble from Hurricane Sandy.

From ABC News:
2:55 AM EDT: Coast Guard spokesman David Weydert tells ABC News, "The Coast Guard received notification that the sailing vessel HMS Bounty was in distress. We responded by sending out a C-130 aircraft and we're currently monitoring the situation."

And the ships website confirms she is in harms way:
TallShipBounty.org

I sure hope this story has a happy ending.
 
#327 · (Edited)
PCP, Thanks for link,
http://hamptonroads.com/2012/11/bountys-illfated-trip-face-hurricane-scrutinized

Quote:
"There are a lot of armchair sailors saying, 'What the hell was he doing out there?' " said Richard Bailey, a captain who worked with Walbridge and has known him for more than 20 years.

"He had a strategy," Bailey said. "Aside from being dead, it makes great sense. I think a professional examination will say it was a good strategy, but it didn't take into account a complete and utter loss of power."
 
#330 · (Edited)
About the sea conditions:

"It's one of the biggest seas I've ever been in. It was huge out there," said coastguard rescue swimmer Randy Haba, who helped pluck four crew members off one of the canopied life rafts and a fifth who was in the water.

HMS Bounty crew member dies and captain missing in stormy seas | World news | guardian.co.uk

About the possible reasons of generator failure, consequent impossibility to run the pumps and consequent engine failure:

Hansen said Walbridge was attempting to head east, away from the hurricane, when the ship began taking on water.

"At that time it wasn't considered an emergency, even though they had several feet of water inside the boat," Hansen said.

"She's a very large ship, and that little bit of water really does not do anything to her. But somehow we lost power in our generator and in our main engines, and as a result, we could not pump any water out of the boat."
As the waves continued to batter the ship, "it just got to the point where she couldn't stay afloat anymore."

Sandy claims 'Bounty' off North Carolina - CNN.com

From the gCaptain Forum, posted by a professional sailor (1600 Master)

I was sailing on board the tall ship Bounty as a guest in May and was not tasked with pumping the bilges. My photos of the engine room exist simply because I'd never seen an engine room with wooden bulkheads, or a wooden bilge. The engine room was cramped, the main engines were (Caterpillar?), and generator (yellow...Caterpillar?) were in custom made sound-proofed boxes. In the photos you can see the battery powered fire alarm, and typical electrical outlet mounted low on the FWD bulkhead.

The pumps...If I remember correctly, the main bilge pump was in the engine room, and was mounted low on the FWD bulkhead and was electric.

With just a small amount of water sloshing around the engine room everything on board would have shorted out.


You can see in my photos just how shallow the bilge is in the engine room.

... There were no other "emergency" pumps located higher than those in the engine room that I remember, and I do not believe she was required to maintain any other emergency pumps.

I do not believe she was required to have a licensed engineer/QMED or oiler on board.

Below the weather deck she was basically open bow to stern. The next level below had many different transverse wooden bulkheads built for structural integrity but not watertight integrity. If there was 2' of water in one area, say in the lower crew berthing area, then there would be 2' of water in the engine room based only one the curvature of the hull, and slope of the keel.

The bulkheads on the Bounty were not intended to isolate areas from free-flow water movement; they were not required to do so by the ABS or the USCG.

There was one watertight door installed to appease a disgusted marine inspector years ago. It separated the lower FWD sleeping area from the bosun stores area. There were also numerous non-watertight doors between decks.

As an old, wooden, movie prop, she leaked constantly and each watch was tasked to monitor the bilge water level and pump her out as needed.

Underway, in rough seas she would have been leaking like mad and would have been totally dependent on her electric pumps…which were easy to short out due to their location.
…….
…….

From another professional as a reply:

A licensed engineer worth his or her salt would have walked off the gangway after one look around.

Thanks for this, and thanks to everyone else who posted up. While I have an interest in the history of sail, and how our predecessors lived and worked, I never really paid much attention to contemporary replica tall ships, because it never occurred to me that someone would be so foolhardy as to take one out in a storm of Sandy's magnitude. I always thought of them as tourist attractions and museum pieces that were only sailed in fair weather. Silly, silly me. I've gotten a real education from this thread.

.....
 
#331 · (Edited)
Can anyone post an AIS plott of what ships would have been in the Eastern Atlantic at the time of the Bounty sinking?

I understand Bounty was in communication with another vessel that they were going to pass.

Did a search but came up with nothing.

this gives live shots, pretty cool:
http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/default.aspx?level0=100

Regards
 
#332 ·
Casey,

I have that app on the IPAD as well as android phone. Is a great help in figuring out anchored vessels as well as names of vessels to hail.

We also have ais module on our Raymarine system as well as the VHF which of course helps identify us as well
 
#335 ·
Armchair sailor's opinion

Some more information:

The opinion of another armchair sailor (now with 77), that was for 16 years the Bounty Captain:

Hugh Boyd, 77, a former Bounty captain for 16 years, echoed Carey in wondering why Walbridge took the ship out as a hurricane approached.

"I'm so sorry he went out in this weather to risk the lives of him and his crew," Boyd said. "It was very risky business."


Another armchair sailor and former Captain of the tall ship Virginia:

Captain Hank Moseley:

Moseley said many people questioned the decision to go to sea with the storm looming."All of us watched through social media that the ship had departed, and many of us were surprised that they left when they did and followed the route that they did. If the decision were mine to make, I wouldn't have made that passage."

Another armchair sailor, the Captain of the tall ship Picton Castle:

The captain of the Picton Castle says he can't understand why the Bounty was at sea Monday when a massive hurricane was forecast to hit.

Indeed, Dan Moreland postponed leaving Lunenburg more than a week ago precisely because of hurricane Sandy.

"It was an easy decision to make," he said. "It's black and white, there are no nuances with this. It's a huge system and that made the decision very simple."

Moreland said he has known Robin Walbridge, the longtime captain of the Bounty, for years and he is an experienced seaman, but Moreland said he was shocked that Walbridge decided to sail, given the forecast.

"Yes, I have to say yes, I can't say anything else. When I first heard the Bounty was out there, I thought, 'You've got to be kidding.' "

Moreland said there was very good information on the storm well in advance.

"I don't understand this one at all," he said. "This is a huge system, there is no way of avoiding this, there's no dodging and weaving around it."

Moreland has captained the Picton Castle on five circumnavigations, and the tall ship has sailed more than 400,000 kilometres under his command without incident.

Moreland had planned to set sail in the Picton Castle over a week ago but delayed the voyage because of the impending hurricane.

"I had no interest in going because of this storm," clearly a large system that would have extensive impact, he said.

He postponed the departure until last Wednesday, and then, given the latest weather information, decided to stay put until the storm passed....

Moreland expects the Bounty's sinking to come under intense scrutiny.

"When you lose a ship, there are some pretty obvious questions out of this. It's pretty horrible, and the big question is, the decision to go."


Another armchair sailor but one that knows one or two things about the Bounty, the former president of the Society of Preservation of the HMS Bounty, Cathy Carey :

she wondered why Walbridge was on the ocean with all the warnings about the looming superstorm. "He knew the storm was coming, for a couple of weeks. He had plenty of time to know," she said. "He shouldn't have gone out there...

And the saddest and oddest thing is that this was not a first time for the Bounty (with the same Captain). Some years ago almost sunk exactly by the same reasons it sank now:

This was not the first time the Bounty was in peril. In 1998, several newspapers reported the ship almost sank after three of its bilge pumps failed.

Investigators said the ship started taking on water when a storm banged the ship around, loosening the caulking between the planks and allowing water to seep in. The Coast Guard responded and delivered pumps to the troubled vessel.


2nd day of searching for ship's captain is unsuccessful | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

http://abcnews.go.com/US/hurricane-...-cheers/story?id=17588614&page=2#.UJhRF29mKSo

Picton Castle captain questions Bounty being at sea during storm | The Chronicle Herald
 
#338 ·
Some other places has talked about whether there might have been an issue with removing the original lead ballast pigs and replacing them with a steel keel shoe.

One other issue that has been discussed elsewhere is communications.
Rather surprisingly, I didn't see anything about EPIRBs or PLBs, for example, in the winlink.org article:

http://www.winlink.org/node/662

On Monday morning, October 29, the tall ship HMS Bounty was in the embrace of Hurricane Sandy 90 miles off Hatteras, NC and taking on water. Doug Faunt, N6TQS, survivor and ship's electrician, told the ARRL that the Bounty crew tried various methods to call for help, including a satellite phone, "... we got nothing when tried calling out on HF. We tried calling the Maritime Mobile Net, but nothing was out there. We had Winlink on the ship that we used for e-mail and accessing the Internet to post to blogs and to Facebook, and we finally found an e-mail address for the Coast Guard. As a last-ditch effort, we used Winlink to e-mail the Coast Guard for help.
 
#340 · (Edited)
...
On Monday morning, October 29, the tall ship HMS Bounty was in the embrace of Hurricane Sandy 90 miles off Hatteras, NC and taking on water. Doug Faunt, N6TQS, survivor and ship's electrician, told the ARRL that the Bounty crew tried various methods to call for help, including a satellite phone, "... we got nothing when tried calling out on HF. We tried calling the Maritime Mobile Net, but nothing was out there. We had Winlink on the ship that we used for e-mail and accessing the Internet to post to blogs and to Facebook, and we finally found an e-mail address for the Coast Guard. As a last-ditch effort, we used Winlink to e-mail the Coast Guard for help.
"We had Winlink on the ship that we used for e-mail and accessing the Internet to post to blogs and to Facebook"

Internet is great but hardly the best way to call a SAR:rolleyes:

I found another armchair sailor that says the Bounty should have not sailed out of New London, the Captain of the Pride of Baltimore:

Jan Miles, longtime captain of the tall ship Pride of Baltimore II, said going to sea was not a decision he would have made.

"It wasn't like it was a surprise there was a hurricane," he said

"These things are too big for a slow boat to outmaneuver," he said. "Had I been asked what I thought Capt. Walbridge would have done in this instance, it wouldn't have been this."


http://hamptonroads.com/2012/10/tall-ship-crew-abandons-vessel-nc-coast

Regards

Paulo
 
#344 ·
It's possible that a modern-day wood boat can be made to last a lot longer than those before the days of good bottom paint and preservatives. Toredo worms ate up many of the old boats but they are not a problem now as long as the bottom has a good coat of paint. The old square riggers used copper sheeting sometimes but worms can get past it if there's any opening.

The surprising thing in those comparative specs is that although nearly twice as long as the original, the new boat had the same draft. This would seem to change the righting moment considerably.
 
#346 ·
The old square riggers used copper sheeting sometimes...
Imagine the cost of THAT today! :eek:

The Weather Channel has a special (already) on "Superstorm Sandy". Yes, meteorologists have deemed this to be a superstorm. Anyway, the more I learn about this storm and what they knew and when, the less evidence there is to support the decision for anyone to choose to leave port (Navy excluded), let alone head into the direction of this massive storm (no one excluded).

In the two most recent investigations of sailing tragedies that included loss of life, the findings concluded the captain and/or crew were responsible for failure to avoid. I would imagine their investigation of the Bounty disaster will be looking at the same thing - did the captain take the necessary measures to avoid?
 
#345 ·
Survivors speak... (can someone post the link to the video on the GMA website - I don't have sufficient "tweets" yet!) Here's the text...

"Crew members from the HMS Bounty, who were rescued as the tall ship sank of the coast of North Carolina last week, are speaking for the first time about their experience as they weathered Hurricane Sandy and the loss of two of their crew mates.

The dramatic sinking of the Bounty and harrowing rescue of its crew last Monday created some of the most enduring images during Hurricane Sandy. In an ABC News exclusive, the ship's 14 surviving crew members are opening up about their rescue after they tried to weather the storm.

They described the chaos as they abandoned ship and the Bounty was slammed by a giant wave. The 14 survivors, still together a week after the disaster, are still chiefly concerned with honoring those who didn't make it -- their captain, Robin Wallbridge, and deckhand Claudine Christian.

For first mate John Svendsen the call to abandon ship was one of the toughest he'd ever made.

"We determined a safe time when we knew the ship would still be stable and we could get everyone on deck and change our focus from saving the ship to saving every life," said Svendsen, who credits Capt. Wallbridge's endless drills and preparation for the 14 lives that were saved.

But the ship's leadership lost all control once a giant wave broadsided the ship, knocking some of the crew -- already in their survival suits -- into the roiling sea.

"It was [like a] washing machine in an earthquake … while going down a giant slide," crewmember Laura Groves told ABC News.

The crew says their unexpected adventure began on October 25, as the ship set sail from Connecticut. Captain Wallbridge wrote on Facebook that with Hurricane Sandy on the move, "a ship is safer at sea than in port." But three days into the voyage, the crew found themselves in the middle of the ferocious storm, with heaving waves three stories high.

"The weather was so bad and we had so little control," said Douglas Faunt.

"It took every ounce of my strength to focus through to survive," said first mate Svendsen.

Winds were tearing at the crew at 70 mph, and by the fourth day the ship, which was constructed for the 1962 film "Mutiny on the Bounty" and later featured in "Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest," had been taking on water for 24 hours.

Crew members on the Bounty had trained for rough weather countless times, they said.

"We been through two other hurricanes," Daniel Cleveland said. "We were literally launching the life rafts, and she went over."

The ship was thrown on its side, tossing crew members into the waves. They wore red survival suits designed to help them float.

"At that moment I couldn't be sure who the red suits were around me," Cleveland said.

Hours after being thrown into the water and clambering into the life rafts, they began to hear the beating rotors of Coast Guard helicopters. But they were far from safe, with the weather uncertain and one of the most daring Coast Guard rescues in memory underway.

"When the helicopters showed up, I think everyone in the life raft just started hooting and hollering," Cleveland said.

Suddenly a Coast Guard rescue swimmer launched himself from a chopper and swam toward them -- popping his head into their raft and heaving himself in.

"I was immediately filled with a huge sense of relief, and he asked, 'Who's ready to get out of here?' And we were all about to say 'Yeah,' and then the raft just gets crushed with this wave and knocks him pretty good," said Cleveland.

Svendsen was the only survivor not in a raft. He swam to a floating beacon, which had been devised by Capt. Wallbridge.

"So I give my life to Robin, and to his ingenuity, to his leadership, that I'm here today," Svendsen said.

Those who were pulled out alive had no idea who else had survived.

"When we got up there everybody cheered each time we saw a new face come into that helicopter," Joshua Scornavacchi said.

But not everyone made it home. Claudine Christian was one of the Bounty's newest crew members, and was already part of the ship's family.

"She was having the most fun ever on the best ride ever. She was so happy," Doug Faunt said.

Christian's last text to her mother read, "If I do go down with the ship & the worst happens… just know that I am truly genuinely happy!!"

The Coast Guard found her body hours later, and couldn't revive her. The body of Capt. Wallbridge has not been recovered. For the 14 who made it survival is bittersweet.

"[I'm} going to miss them the rest of my life," said Faunt, wiping away tears.

Today the entire surviving crew is still mourning and in shock, but grateful.

"After this, I'm never going to have another bad day in my life," said Faunt, and the rest of the 13 survivors nodded.
 
#348 · (Edited)
The interviews and first hand accounts and sentiments of the crew of the Bounty are finally starting to surface. They seem to have a great deal of respect for their captain, more than a few of the posters on Sailnet.

One doesnt have to look far to see the effect of social media ( I would classify Sailnet as this) or the news media and so called experts to obfuscate and put spin, no matter what direction on events. You have seen it over the last year with the presidential election in the forefront of this. Some of the attack ads we have all seen have left me wondering is this what we have come to. Is civility no longer part of our culture where we feel we ll have the right to judge...and then post out feelings with no regards to the people involved.

So who do you beleive...someone who was in the incident and sailed with him and knows him...or someone who reads reports from others and then blogs about it to bolster thier conclusion or spin.

Like I have previously said there is a lot more to surface concerning this incident while I dont understand the Captains actions in sailing into a hurricane, I still will withhold my judgement until there is more information. Less than a week has gone by since this happened. far to soon for me to have an accurate pitcure of the whole event.

Dave
 
#349 · (Edited)
...
Like I have previously said there is a lot more to surface concerning this incident while I dont understand the Captains actions in sailing into a hurricane, I still will withhold my judgement until there is more information. ..

Dave
Dave, give me just one possible reason for the Captain to sail to a Hurricane, risking the live of his crew, when if he stayed in Port even if we would have the possibility of having some damage on the boat, would have the crew safe.

Let me point out that the Picton Caste whose captain chose to stay in the same port (and said that did not understand why Bounty's Captain had choose to sail to a hurricane) did not sustain any damage with the storm and even if he had, he would have done the right thing putting the live of his crew above a possible damage on the boat.

You said that we did not know if the storm had any relevance to the lost of the boat.

The crew says now:

"The weather was so bad and we had so little control," said Douglas Faunt.

"It took every ounce of my strength to focus through to survive," said first mate Svendsen....

But the ship's leadership lost all control once a giant wave broadsided the ship, knocking some of the crew -- already in their survival suits -- into the roiling sea. ...The ship was thrown on its side, tossing crew members into the waves. They wore red survival suits designed to help them float.


Do you still have any doubt know that the Storm was relevant to the lost of the ship?


There is a thing that really I am unable to understand:

Has you all know the boat had been already in bad trouble some years back, in a situation very similar making water in a storm and without the generators out of service ( pumps dead) and the boat was saved only because the coast guard was able to deliver some diesel running portable pumps.

Even if if I find that there is not any possible valid reason for the ship to have sailed out of shelter to a Hurricane, why have not they learned with the last incident and have on board independent, portable or not, diesel pumps?

Compared with the millions of dollars that cost the maintenance of that boat their cost would be insignificant.

Regards

Paulo
 
#350 ·
One thing we need to give someone credit for having the survival suits on board.

I am sure that saved some lives. As far as I know survival suits are not a Coast Gurard requirement for the Bounty, so someone deserves credit for spending the money that saved some crew.
 
#354 ·
#353 ·
I didn't expect morning TV interviews of the crew to be very enlighting about why the sinking happened and how to prevent it, and indeed they weren't. The video was, though.

I will wait for the Coast Guard Marine Board to see what they have to say when asked about the decision-making (to the extent they know without Capt Walbridge) and where the water ingress was from, among other things. The chief mate may/should know almost everything the captain did.

I've been a member of such Boards, and represented mariners in them. They usually get to the bottom of things.

That said, I understand the feelings several of them expressed about coming through it--I've heard it from other survivors who didn't expect to survive, they see the rest of their lives as a gift. It can change you.
 
#356 · (Edited)
Just read this quote from "Steamer" on the GCaptain site:

http://gcaptain.com/forum/professional-mariner-forum/10134-hms-bounty-hurricane-sandy-20.html

"This Bounty thing has really stirred up a lot of people all across the board and reading the posts on various forums is enlightening and sometimes amusing but some of the stuff from the recreational crowd sends a chill up your spine. A good result though is that gCaptain is getting some mention as a source of professional insights and comment. Heaven only knows how many of their readers faint away like 19th century school girls when they come across the pointy stick style of seafaring criticism. They don't seem to appreciate facts that are much blunter than a plastic sailboat's bow.

There was a good discussion going on in a "trawler" site (which included a link to gCaptain) where one of the members was being praised for the high quality of his seamanship after putting his family aboard a little plastic "trawler" boat and setting anchor in shallow water someplace on Long Island. He believed that if anything happened the water wasn't deep enough to completely cover the boat and if the anchor dragged and they went ashore they could just walk off. A few people condemned his actions but they were shouted down by the huge majority who went so far as to echo the exact words we have been reading about the late Mr. Walbridge - that the guy was a hero and made the right decision - and for protecting his "crew"/family. Tthe fact that he survived is proof to them that he is a superior seaman. The fact that the guy admits to just hanging on for dear life and did nothing other than be a passenger while the storm raged doesn't seem to enter into it.

If nothing else this whole Bounty affair is showing us that there really is a gulf between the recreational (including the TSC) hobbyist and the professional mariner. These guys are really really scary, a lot scarier than I ever believed they were. I think this storm has opened a few eyes but unfortunately it seems to have driven some of the survivors into a deeper defensive position, from fear or just embarrassment I don't know."

Agree 100%, we yachties have some work to do if we want to gain the respect of the professionals.

Regards
 
#359 ·
I think it can be expected that the investigators will be looking at the following (in no particular order):

1. NOAA weather reports - what was known and when?
2. Condition of the ship, from stem to stern
3. Experience of the crew and how many crew a ship like the Bounty required
4. Testimony from the crew, both past and present
5. Minimum safety equipment required - did the ship have it?
6. Life safety equipment required - did the ship have it?
7. Because of the video, any evidence the captain actually chased hurricanes
8. How often the ship was in rough weather and whether any measures were taken to avoid that
9. Did the captain ignore any specific warnings (other than weather warnings) not to go to sea?
10. Were there any actions the captain could have taken to avoid the tragedy?

What did I miss?
 
#360 ·
One of the crew/survivor stated that he had been through 2 hurricanes on the Bounty with the captain. I would like to hear more details on that one which the investigation should cover. To me statements like that should be proof enough that we should all be very careful in thinking that we know it all by our past actions/experiences. Some common sense seems to be lacking.
 
#363 · (Edited)
Again from the Gcapatin site from Jemplayer:

"The whole vessel at sea is safer then at port thing just comes off as pure dumb ******* to me. With insurance now a days who should care what happens to a vessel while at the dock? Tie the ****** up and head for the hills. Two people would be alive right now if they used common sense.

Saying "well the U.S. Navy does it" is just another sign of these peoples ignorance. They are in steel hull boats several hundred feet long so yes they can do a lot more damage to the docks and themselves with high water and winds, but they have the sense also to go the complete opposite ******* way of the storm. Coupled with the fact that keeping our navy functioning and that large ships need more water under them in a storm so they do not start to hog and sag to the point that they eventual break their keel do to the wave period decreasing due to the water getting shallower. There is a real purpose and some reasoning to that, but to send people out to potentially save what essentially amounts to a rich mans toy is criminal. How these people in their wooden and plastic toys think they are in the same league as a 500 hundred foot ship is beyond me.

Hell all of us are on vessels that could weather anything worse then these amateur sailors could ever imagine and none of us would have even thought of attempting some of the **** I have seen done by those idiots. Really going out in the middle of a bay to ride a hurricane out just thinking that if worse comes to worse and you sink you can just jump in your dingy or swim to shore?!?!?! May be those guys should take a survival craft class and see the difficulty and dangers in beaching a boat in a storm. Without a doubt these guys don't know that a sea anchor is needed to have any real chance of success. Just ask they crew that died in Japan when they didn't take their vessel offshore far enough that it's back broke. When beaching they didn't use a sea anchor and they might have well been in a washing machine on spin cycle.

But I've never gotten the fascination the hard core amateur crowd has for saving their toys by putting their lives in danger to do it."
 
#364 ·
... and would the captain lose his job if he took a stand concerning safety that impacted money flow ...
If the master ultimately lost his job for his decision NOT to put to sea, then so be it -- that's called "moral courage" in the military, and it is one of the many factors that differentiate a "profession" from a "vocation."
 
#365 ·
Dave, give me just one possible reason for the Captain to sail to a Hurricane, risking the live of his crew, when if he stayed in Port even if we would have the possibility of having some damage on the boat, would have the crew safe- PCP.
Paulo, Since you address me specifically, and there are many other posters here who have said similiar, I will respond. Like i have said numerous times I dont understand why he set sail. How many times do I have to say that. I AGREE WITH YOU, I have also said that that he erred in judgement for doing that. Can we just get that straight here. I beleive that this was a contributory factor in the sinking. It also has not been demonstarted to me that that was the only factor and that this vessel would not have floundered during tomorrows northeaster. This will come out when the maintainence and build quality are analayzed.

I have also said that there may be other factors involved in the sinking. I dont understand why everyone takes that to mean that I am DEFENDING the Captain here. I am not. What I am saying is that there is more to come in terms of facts. It seems as though a bunch of the posters think that is wrong to say...while there are a fair number of posters who also want to see the other facts also and not rush to judgement that he is the only or even the principal cause.

Also many on this thread have made this HUGE deal about the Captains u tube post. Many have made insinuations of his incompetance from that. When the actual crew memebers on baord with him that fatefull day now say something which either contradicts or gives another angle of the captains personality, you dont want to accept that. An eyewitness account and the interviews of people who really worked with that captain seem to be to be a more valid view of the captains personality, termperment, and abilities than social media posts. Let me ask another quest. I have yet to hear any of you admit that yet. Maybe thats because you have already rushed to judgement.

The real danger in the rush to judgement is that you may neglect to overlook other critical factors in this. e already have said time and time again he should have left in a hurricane looming. So we are done with that. No need to keep repeating it.

Since we want this to be a learning experience and discuss it so that we dont repeat the mistakes...please keep your minds open that there many be other contributory reasons and correctioins from this tragedy. One of the accusations was that he wasnt qualified to be a captain. Another was the builkd quality of the ship. Another was the pressure put on the Captain by the company. Another was the inexperience of the crew. Another was the general maintainence of the ship. On and On there are other things to learn so they are not repeated if we keep an open mind and do not rush to judgement.

Lastly remember you are getting much of your information from posts on the internet, twitter, SN, news etc and other social media sites which we all know are far less than accurate and can be slanted and doctored.

Actual transcripts from interviews do not fall into this category. Please keep level heads here. The posters here who keep saying let the other facts come out are not wrong to say that and should not be attacked, called dumb or ignorant and shouted down.
 
#372 ·
Also many on this thread have made this HUGE deal about the Captains u tube post. Many have made insinuations of his incompetance from that. When the actual crew memebers on baord with him that fatefull day now say something which either contradicts or gives another angle of the captains personality, you dont want to accept that. An eyewitness account and the interviews of people who really worked with that captain seem to be to be a more valid view of the captains personality, termperment, and abilities than social media posts. Let me ask another quest. I have yet to hear any of you admit that yet. Maybe thats because you have already rushed to judgement.

.
I do not think anyone is making a huge deal of the interview with the Capt. We are just taking the Capt for his word. And most people find what the Capt said in the interview shocking, everyone from the media, yachties, professional seamen/women. The interview seems to be serious, with the Capt apparenty giving factual statements. That is what most people find shocking.

How can you accuse people of exploiting facts for there own use when in this case the "facts" are coming directly from the person in question. I agree (and stand-by waiting) that we need more facts, and to compare the facts the CG finds with the "facts" the Capt gave in that interview will be most interesting. But if the facts the CG finds are different than the "facts" the Capt presented in the interview that initself (at least in my opinion) brings question as to the reliabiliy of the Capt. In my opinion, the Capt should speak the truth at all times, and especially when making public statements. To me this is a sign of a true professional.
 
#366 ·
That's very sweet of the crew to speak so highly of the captain. Will they be chipping in to pay the multimillion dollar wrongful death jury award?
- James wilson29
This comment is unproductive and smacks of sarcasm and will not contributed to us learning more about this so as not to repeat it

It also assumes speculative facts not yet in evidence. Unless I am wrong no multimillion dollar wroingful death injury award has been made. The captains next of kin may very well have a wrong death suit against the company, the builders, and the people who repaired the ship. Lets let the facts play out.

Please do not contribute to the hype as someone may pick up what you said here and assume it is a fact. Also please do not attack me for pointing it out to others..
 
#369 ·
The father of a Blue Island man who survived the sinking of the replica of the HMS Bounty during Hurricane Sandy said it hasn't quite dawned on his son yet that he's lucky to be alive.

"They're going through an emotional roller coaster right now; there's some grieving and relief, all at the same time," said Jim Salapatek, the father of Drew Salapatek, a 28-year-old deckhand on the Bounty.

Salapatek said he spoke to his son shortly after the crew was rescued.

"I talked to him right after they pulled him out of the water, after the Coast Guard debriefed him and obviously the paramedics gave him a going-over, and… tired. Tired and I think emotionally drained, but fine; in good spirits for all that he's been through."
So we know the crew was debriefed by the Coast Guard after they were pulled from the water. That, more than anything else, could be why they aren't saying anything about what led to the sinking. Maybe they have been told not to say anything until the CG investigation is done. That would be logical.

That quote BTW, was from an Oct. 30 CBS report.
 
#370 ·
I think it can be expected that the investigators will be looking at the following (in no particular order):

1. NOAA weather reports - what was known and when?
2. Condition of the ship, from stem to stern
3. Experience of the crew and how many crew a ship like the Bounty required
4. Testimony from the crew, both past and present
5. Minimum safety equipment required - did the ship have it?
6. Life safety equipment required - did the ship have it?
7. Because of the video, any evidence the captain actually chased hurricanes
8. How often the ship was in rough weather and whether any measures were taken to avoid that
9. Did the captain ignore any specific warnings (other than weather warnings) not to go to sea?
10. Were there any actions the captain could have taken to avoid the tragedy?

What did I miss?
Thats a great start

1- Training procedures and emergency procedures
2- The timeline of what the captain knew and when he knew it
3- The involvement of the company in the ship setting sail
4- The intended purpose of the ship
5- The actual limitations in terms of seaworthiness of the ship to withstand any and all
types of weather
6- The captains actions once an emergency was called
7- A detailed analysis of any and all maintainence work- were the correct materials
used, was the maintanence finished before they set sail.
8- The Captains credentials and experience
9- Were there any contributing or compelling factors from any other entity other than
the company for instance the city/ marina where it was docked which compelled
the ship to leave
10- Was a float plan or emergency alternatives discussed when the storm deepened and
turned northward vs veering east
11- What exactly caused the vessel to sink.....scientifically and specifically
 
#371 ·
I watched the interview this morning. I'm not surprised they were fond of their Captain. For sure, they all knew the storm was coming, so they must have trusted him to stay aboard. That is precisely why he is going to be held responsible for this event. That isn't a conclusion based on facts, that is just a fact in and of itself. He was the leader.

What I found most interesting was the noted lack of any information about why the boat was taking on water. It is not uncommon that exclusive media interviews are negotiated in advance, particularly when there are pending legal actions. I find it hard to believe the interviewer would have forgotten to ask how the boat came to take on water and sink.

The ongoing fact that this Captain had taken Bounty into a hurricane before are mounting. Now the crew acknowledged it. This is a risk management concept that is well taught. People take on risk, survive it and begin to believe they are able to manage it. In reality, the risk isn't a 100% killer and they won the previous hands. If you keep playing, you eventually come up craps. Call it the preponderance of evidence, if you are offended by a conclusion prior the government report.

Now here is something I find ironic. So far, the only purported facts that I have read that have proven false where those in defense of the Captain: sailed to protect the ship, sailed East of the storm, didn't sink off Hatteras. Maybe I missed some.
 
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