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The Cruising Life, by Jim Trefethen, and Cruising Financials

63K views 209 replies 58 participants last post by  capta 
#1 · (Edited)
I've been slowly reading through The Cruising Life by Jim Trefethen, and I have to admit that it's making me think twice about some things. (Sorry this is a long post.)

Even if you don't read this book, it's worth skimming the reader reviews at Amazon.com. I have to like a book that is both praised and hated by other readers. Some dislike his preference for wood boats. Some think his wiring diagrams will burn your boat to the waterline. Other's think he's an unreformed ad man who started with a lot more money than other cruisers.

The funny thing is, the criticisms might be right, but at the same time the arguments he makes about "the cruising kitty being the most important part of the cruise" are pretty thought-provoking. He has an opinionated, argumentative tone about how to plan finances for cruising, which I appreciate as one man's opinion to consider.

If I'm reading this right, he and his family started cruising in the early 1990s. His two kids were still school-age, but he was in his early fifties. They bought a $25,000 wood sailboat and took off from the east coast with minimal refurb, and made it to New Zealand before deciding the "big rebuild" was needed.

They started by renting their house back at home, but found it a bad experience and sold it. Their cruising "kitty" was around $150,000, which was put in diverse investments that generated around a 14 percent return in the late nineties (1997 ish-- sound familiar?). They were cruising mostly on the return and small work along the way. The had a separate retirement fund that had grown to around $250k in 1997, which was invested and would remain untouched until they were 65.

As I think about the differences between

1) Doing a sabbatical cruise or career break cruise.
2) Doing an open-ended cruise when in our 40s.
3) Doing an open-ended cruise in our 50s, and maybe not working again.
4) Doing a retirement cruise closer to age 60.

I think that Trefethen's model is a pretty good example of option 3. What's interesting, and thought-provoking, is that they started with pretty good financials (retirement fund, solid equity in house, 50k in savings), but the equation of selecting the boat really had to hit a low cost point ($25k) in order to protect the kitty so that it could generate returns. As he noted, the advice of boat brokers was that a $250k boat would be needed to safely cruise with children across oceans for a multi-year trip, and Trefethen noted that in that case they could have bought the boat and then had nothing left.

He notes that a lot a cruisers don't plan for final retirement well (those who start cruising in their 40s and 50s), and others mistakenly think that they'll sell their boat at the end of the cruising for a nice retirement nest egg. I'm not sure these claims are true, but I could see them happening.

Anyway, his arguments about living a minimalist life on land for several years before cruising, and buying a boat at the last possible minute, make sense in several ways. In today's economy, I don't think I could generate 14% in annual returns on a $150k kitty, which hints at the idea that it would have to be quite larger in order to finance most cruising expenses via returns on investment.

An interesting goal would be $500k in the final retirement fund, and $500k in the cruising kitty (before the boat is bought). Even with the $500k to start, it seems like selecting the boat would still be a tough issue, since it would be best to have around $400k returning around 7 percent a year to offset a majority of cruising expenses for a family of four.

Interesting issues-- ones that can make sabbatical cruising look better than before as well. Despite the criticisms, the book is worth reading for its ideas.

Jim H
 
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#27 ·
Perhaps this explains why so many Canadians go to the US when they really need a doctor? (Sorry, couldn't resist that one)

Thing is though, what does all this chest thumping have to do with the topic?
 
#29 · (Edited)
lhunt said:
so many of us dream but few actually have the spine to get off our buts a really do the cruisiing even if it is for a few months. most of us get stuck in the security of the job and home. sad but true. Dreamer
You're right.

I still like Don Casey's and Lew Hackler's argument: if you are serious about cruising, then go cruising, this weekend and every weekend you can, even if your boat is tiny and your lake or river is small. The overnighters may become weekends, which may become weeks or even months or years of cruising. Or not. Either way, waiting for "the day" doesn't make sense.

Every trip counts, no matter how small. The important part is that they happen.

Thanks for the post.

Jim H

p.s. I agree with John that the country comparison exchange should likely move to the Fight Club thread.
 
#31 · (Edited)
Never mind the my boat is bigger than yours stuff.

I think some of the figures cited are a bit questionable. There seems some doubt as to what current inflation really is let alone predicting what it will be, with money supply growing at 8-10% pa. 5 million in 40 years may well be the cost of the average home based on the last 40.

It seems to me (setting aside the young person in a small boat working here and there scenario) there are two main options.

The mid-life two years or so time-out, and the older say twilight time.

For the first essentially one needs the money to live on plus I would think buy and equip the boat. Say $140-200K. I think the boat should be paid for preferably or the payments plus insurance allowed for and added. I think this should be expendable money not your capital.

At 60 or so you probably want the boat say 100k plus 150k minimum for say 5 years cruising including interest.

In both cases I would not advocate selling up everything to do it. Why? Because in retirement you probably need a pension plan, plus some cash to put jam on the bread, and a mortgage free home, which enables you to live on a pension.

Over 5 years or so to repurchase that home may well cost you 50% more, which is a sizeable chunk to pay off at that stage. Hence I think keeping some money in real estate is mandatory. The boat costs roughly 10% in annual costs, whereas property tends to produce some real return after inflation. Any money from the sale of the boat is offset by refitting costs, inflation etc. so I would largely discount it.

On a practical level I gather that most people setting out on a long-term cruise don't last 6 months. I suggest that part of this may be that women prefer a secure home base, certainly to return to. While some will take some time-out, children, grandchildren or careers tend to become issues. Hence in this country it is not unusual for a man to spend many years building a boat only to find that if he wants to go sailing it is on his own, with his share of the matrimonial property the wife having acquired other interests. Hence dreams are okay but being conservative show me the money.

Sure there is a small proportion who earn high money - they would hardly need to read this. Most don't and may even be squeezed by labour outsourcing to lower cost countries. Thus for most it will be smaller and older boats and probably cutting down on the McMansions and other spending that many consider required, to be able to afford it.


I don't see too much point in getting to say 65 and then finding one has say a few years before the health becomes an issue. But aiming for say 60 might be more achievable and rewarding. Of course it depends how far one wants to go. A few months in the Bahamas or Mexico is one thing. For that matter weekends or weeks with the kids in a small boat are great, but that is not the issue here.

Retiring early seems better to me than snuffing it and leaving one's money to the adult kids, so they can enjoy a higher standard of life than their parents ever did. They might go for a cruise themselves or more likely pay off the mortgage and spend it. Fortunately mine would prefer I enjoyed it.
 
#32 ·
Who wants to wait till they're 60!

I've been reading this thread and always enjoy hearing how others are clawing at the cruising lifestyle. One thing I keep coming across is people planning to go cruising at or near retirement, but WHO wants to wait that long (55 or older). I'm 26 years old and I want to go NOW. I'm afraid if I plan on going in retirement it'll never happen, family, health, life, will get in the way, and it'll be a dream that was always just that, a dream. Now I'm not saying 55 is old, but there is possibly a big difference between 55 and 65. I work in a hospital (nurse) and I see it all the time, young (50-69) people struck down with illness, and if they haven't done the things in life that they want to accomplish, well they may not get another chance. I first wanted to go cruising 5 years ago. So I figured on how to incorporated cruising into my life, first I needed a new career, one that was portable(work anywhere in the world), I could make my own hours and make at least what I was making at my then current job (pharmaceutical manufacturing), ~$49,000/year, you see I wasn't about to take a step down. Then I will just buy a boat to live/travel on, take 3 month assignments up and down the coast for 9 months a year then take three or more months a year to cruise. I'll still be saving for retirement, and when I get the boat paid for in a few years (since it'll be my only payment), maybe circumnavigate and work along the way. You see when I'm travelling I get a tax free housing allowance for the average rent in the area, I'll just take that and put straight to the boat, most travel companies pay between $1000-$2000 per month, depending on how expensive housing is. In St. Thomas it's about $4,000 a month. So not to get to long here, after five years, quitting a good job to work full time and go to school full time to start over, I'm almost there, buying a boat early next year and moving aboard. I found the perfect career that will allow me to cruise, and do it NOW, nursing, and it's great because I also get to really help people, and I enjoy that. Everyone has a different situation, but don't wait, my point is I lived in a land locked town five years ago, and in less than a year I'll be cruising. The older you are, the more assets you should have, so it should be a little easier for you to find a way to go, if even for just six months. You only get one chance at this game! Do it now while you can.
Brandon
 
#33 · (Edited)
chris_gee said:
A few months in the Bahamas or Mexico is one thing. For that matter weekends or weeks with the kids in a small boat are great, but that is not the issue here.
Now that I've had two glasses of wine, I think I can respond to your terrible ideas. :)

Actually, your points and scenarios are well-described and supported. I might add that by age 60, the kids are most likely through college and on their own. This is good in the fiscal responsibility to kids issue, but not so good in the "want to cruise with the kids" desire.

The other possible problem is that even at age 60, there might be health insurance issues to cover the gap until Medicare. More than a few of us may have pre-existing conditions by age 60, and who knows what monthly costs might be. I've noticed that a lot of younger cruisers seem to have "special deals" set up (they worked for BluCross or something) that offers them special coverage benefits even if they retire early.

At the Seattle boat show last year, I listened to a seminar by a younger cruising couple. As they noted, they had a choice between cruising or having health insurance, and they opted to cruise without health insurance. Since then, I've found better resources for coverage options (compared to nil).

You described two scenarios well. I'd like to toss out one more. The seasonal/commuter cruiser.

Some of us have careers that could be shifted to 10 month positions, with full benefits during the two months off. If someone lived in the right area, this could result in two months of active coastal cruising in the summers, with or without kids, for as many years as desired. One's annual salary would take a hit, but the cruising would be coastal and shorter term so the boat costs would be less as well. Surprise expenses (engine failure!) could be gradually absorbed by the annual salary.

I've known teachers who've managed to pull this off by owning less expensive homes (1000 sq. feet) and less expensive boats. Sometimes they have to work on the boat for some of their two months, and other times they choose not to cruise so much in the summers. Others might sail down to Mexico, leave the boat, and then return the following year in a "commuting" scenario.

Some might not consider this "cruising," but it would lead to a lot of experience without losing one's career and associated benefits. It could also be done with kids. I've been considering it, since it might be possible to afford a "do it all" boat, which would be light and small enough for local day sailing (and beer can racing and short cruises) in the fall and spring, but strong and large enough for a coastal hop and 1-2 months of summer cruising as well. A local boat that comes to mind is a Pearson 10M.

Lots of options that are fun to consider.

Jim H
 
#34 ·
Going

Actually, paying off your boat when your young is a good idea. Wish I had done that.

I am considering the cost of going. I am conservative but have a good job with a decent retirement. My investments are OK. Only payment I have is a house payment but I will probably sell the house and buy a much smaller place outright in a few years. I sold my last boat and will probably buy my blue water cruising boat this year even though I will only coastal cruise until I retire. I think a prudent person should spend a few years really getting to know his boat if he is going to trust his life and families life in it. I realize that others may not agree but as I said I am conservative. With one 3 year exception I have spent my whole life by the sea and working on it or diving under it and lets just say I have respect for her moods. The real issue for me is just letting go. It is probably one of the hardest decisions for all of us. All I can say is that I have met a number of long distance cruisers and they all say the same thing. Even if you have to go small just go. If you don't and you truly are a long distance sailor you will regret it. Certainly you have to make sure you do not become a burden on others but you can't get too hung up on numbers (and I am guilty of that also).

Considering cruisers, ethnocentric personalities are rare.
Cherry picking stats with no context is garbage. Personally I hope I continue to never meet such people while traveling on the water. I am knew to this site and I really hope that Waverider's method of addressing an important choice all cruisers must make at some point is not the norm.
 
#35 ·
Waverider said:
Let's hope I don't meet a conservative dreamer on the waves either, that last thing I need to listen to is a head in the sand whiner when I'm having fun on our boat.
Wave, you have me laughing out loud. I take it that you don't work in public relations... :)

First off, if you are so pleased with your country, finances and cruising plans, why are you even posting here? Are we heathens that need to be saved?

Secondly, the "attitude" you're showing is pretty extreme. I mean, on the docks, I think we'd quietly run away from you. :)

So look, maybe you should give us a break here. Most of us know how to use the IGNORE LIST feature on this bulletin board. Basically, in the User Control Panel, we can add a user to our personal ignore lists, and then it's pretty much like they don't exist. You can then say anything you want, and it will be like a tree falling in a forest.

So turn it around-- we're not as terrible as your attitude suggests. :)

Jim H
 
#37 ·
"I'm a Canadian, read hockey player, so I'm aggressive. I play tomorrow, and I'm going to find the first french guy on the ice and drop the gloves and beat the hell out of him. Hey, he's french, so he needs a beating and I like french fries, and hate freedom fries. Actually, poutine is better."

Canada now uses retired geriatric players?? Must be a sight!!

You must be one of those “aggressive” idiots that loves the bravery of being out of range.

Come on down to St. Thomas, I’m waiting for you…. Will make you swallow that chilled wine and it won’t be thru the mouth…. Gozzard 37, huh???? Easy to spot!
 
#40 ·
Source: http://www.boatus.com/jackhornor/sail/Gozzard36.htm

"... it's fair to say that if performance is your primary criteria in a sailboat you should not be looking at a boat like the Gozzard 36. However, if style, accommodations and quality construction rank high on your priority list, and you're prepared to pay for them, this could be the boat for you. "

Sounds like a Gozzard is all show and no go? I guess it's true then, pets resemble their owners.
 
#41 ·
Risk

I read alright, mostly sailing magazines and submarine drawings these days though. I don't have much time for blowhards. All the Gozzards I've seen look pretty similar. You sound pretty familiar, too. But like I always say, what the heck do I know?

To get back on topic, (or maybe just to get on it, since I admit I haven't so far ;) ) the elephant in the room is risk tolerance. Some people have it, most don't. Most people cannot stand the concept of an insecure financial future. They would never consider going cruising without insurance for themselves or for their boat, and they certainly wouldn't do it without some kind of nest egg/pension fund/cottage on the bluff waiting for their comfortable retirement. They dream of cruising long distance and may even do as Jeff H suggested, short duration trips, hopping up and down the coast, maybe participate in a Newport-Bermuda every once in awhile or something similar, but they never manage to cut the ties to shore - there's always the kid's college to think about, or the needy mother-in-law, always something, just gotta make it to 30 years for a pension and retirement medical benefits ... if they just hold on for a couple more years, everything will be perfect. Next thing they know, they're in their 60's and ocean voyaging away from the luxuries to which they've become accustomed doesn't seem so enticing. The wife needs knee surgery, he's got a bad back, and the boats been on stands in their yard for two years.

I bought my boat from that guy.

I'm in my mid-thirties, married, one boy aged 8 1/2. I make pretty good money as a technical program manager, and my wife is a teacher. I'm coming up on ten years with my company, and the stock in my 401K has doubled a couple of times since I've been investing in it. The bank, my wife and I own a small house. My cash savings isn't worth mentioning at this point. If I leave my company now, I will give up most of my pension benefits and most of the investment growth in my 401K (since most of it comes from employer matching contributions.)

We're going cruising.

We've got a plan (now about 2/5 of the way through on a projected 5 year span) and we're working to it. The ten year milestone seems to be convenient for planning, as my student loans and all other consumer debt aside from my mortgage will be paid off by then. We own the boat, the tools and most of the necessary and sundry equipment already. We're getting the boat and ourselves ready and could go sooner if circumstances required (shipbuilding is a notoriously uncertain career, particularly in this era of constant downsizing.)

Will we have health insurance? Maybe not. Boat insurance? Probably not. A cruising kitty capable of providing 50K a year in income from investment return alone? No way. But we're young, skilled, intelligent, and willing to work. Like the young nurse who commented easrlier in the thread, we have portable skills. More importantly, we have confidence in our ability to make money, one way or another, along the way. We are risk tolerant, partly becasue we are young, but also inherently. With some work and effort, and a bit of luck, this will get us cruising before we're 40.

After all, what's the worst that can happen, that we've got to come back and get real jobs? (OK, not the worst, but disability, illness & injury can strike anyone, anywhere, anytime. Might as well get some cruising in before that happens.)
 
#43 ·
MorganMike,

Sounds like you have a viable, realistic plan. I don't think I will dive in to the extent you are planning, but I retired last week. The boat is wet stored for the winter, in Annapolis. In the spring we will get her ready to cruise New England for the summer. We plan to spend next winter in the Abacos. No plans to take off forever, but we are looking forward to some extended cruising.

I will be watching this list for hints and tips as well as information on the areas we will visit.
 
#44 ·
Excellent points MorganMike. Too often, for one reason or another, someday never comes. I retired early, have already gone through most of the money I expected to last for 5 years, and don't have one regret about doing it. If I have to stop for awhile and work, so be it. I'm doing what I want to do, and on my terms. Don't think one can ask for more than that.
 
#45 ·
morganmike said:
After all, what's the worst that can happen, that we've got to come back and get real jobs? (OK, not the worst, but disability, illness & injury can strike anyone, anywhere, anytime. Might as well get some cruising in before that happens.)
Great post, Morganmike. We wish you the best with your plans. I think what you are planning is very doable.

If you look around the web, you find others with similar plans who are either just about to go, are cruising, or who are back from cruising. There's good stories and not-so-good stories. The one thing I'm learning from their tales is that expensive and complicated breakdowns sound more like the norm than the exception, even if the systems soaked up months or years of work and investment in advance. Until you've motored 1,000 miles, for example, it's hard to tell how your engine and drive train will hold up.

I still really like the Herb Payson books, starting with his first called Blown Away. He and his family started in what seems like a different era, the 1970s, but they had an excellent attitude. They sailed a wooden boat with a frustrating engine on a very low budget with kids for a lot of adventures. I really think a cruise with a brand new boat with perfect systems can fail if the attitude is wrong, and a cruise with less-than-perfect everything can succeed fantastically with the right attitude and previous experience. (Caveat: I think it's pretty rare for attitude to overcome inexperience with cruising or boat maintenance, but...).

On the "worst that can happen list," one of the most frightening for me is health insurance. If you sail with no health insurance, can that be unfair to one's extended family? Both my wife and I come from large families, and if we got into a serious/expensive health issue with no insurance then they would feel the need to contribute. Even if we successfully rejected the help, it would be a real strain on everyone. In reading the SSCA and other forums about cruising health care insurance, especially coverage for only extreme and expensive needs, I think it could be worth the cost to prevent the "worst case" from occurring.

Good luck, and have a great time both now and in the future. Right now, I'm going to try and rouse the family into a daysail with me, even though it's only 36 degrees outside at the moment...

Jim H
 
#46 ·
Jim H said:
Most of us know how to use the IGNORE LIST feature on this bulletin board. Basically, in the User Control Panel, we can add a user to our personal ignore lists, and then it's pretty much like they don't exist.
Phew! Thank you Jim. I was unaware of the ignore list until you pointed it out. He is now ignored, and I can get on with reading this thread without having to read the pitiful diatribes of this embarrassment to my country making a public a** of himself. I apologize for him; his simplistic attitude and twisted opinions are not shared.
 
#47 · (Edited)
No need to apologize dawndreamer, they are everywhere. One thing that has been going around in my head though is what you would be doing to need $50k a year to cruise. Shoot, with that much, I could put 35 a year into the boat! And that's more than I paid for it.

Point is, that seems like a lot of money to go cruising, unless you're just going somewhere to tie up in a marina and live a shore type life. Nothing wrong with that, but I found one of the nice things while I was out was not worrying about how much money I spent, because I wasn't anywhere to spend any. I looked forward to finding a nice anchorage in the evening, and even the one's I shared with others, were still peaceful and relaxing.

It seems to me, at this point, that the biggest strain on the kitty is the periodic costs, such as maintaince, insurance, etc. The day to day costs are minimal when not using marinas each night. Though, if you are outside US waters, there are often cruising fees in many places.

I've started looking at my kitty as a two part thing. One for periodic costs, and one for day to day. That way, once you've established a good reserve for those periodic costs, the amount needed to actually cruise is much smaller. And since you won't always use all the reserve usually, it becomes much easier to refill it. That way, rather than thinking I need X number of dollars of return on my investments, I can probably do alright with Y. Then if I get X, I'm money ahead.

As a disclaimer of sorts, I have to say I've never been one to have a bunch of money in the bank. And I have no one but myself to be concerned about. So there isn't as much "risk" involved for me, as there would be for a couple or a family. But I do think the basic principal would still apply.
 
#48 ·
PBzeer said:
Excellent points MorganMike. Too often, for one reason or another, someday never comes. I retired early, have already gone through most of the money I expected to last for 5 years, and don't have one regret about doing it. If I have to stop for awhile and work, so be it. I'm doing what I want to do, and on my terms. Don't think one can ask for more than that.
Well said PBeezer! Who cares if you have to work some in new places, whether a new state, or a new country, it's just another experience, just another adventure. I find it interesting to find and learn new skills outside of my career. Just recently had a job offer to help build 49 foot ocean cats for a small local builder that puts out about seven to eight boats a year. When I have the time I plan on going down there a few days a week and helping out. This job just fell into my lap, I saw a big cat 49ft with the mast stepped on a trailer at a small local boat ramp (is this real?)and just stopped to see the fireworks and ended up helping out some. I don't think it would be to hard to make the little money needed for cruising if you run out, and the country allows it, which is probably the hardest part. If you are retired, it would be great to have enough money to not have to worry about it though.

I like what I read earlier about the smallest, cheapest boat you can live on,and K.I.S.S. People were cruising long before all of these gadgets. The less you have the less time you spend working on complex systems and maintanence. I know it's extreme, but look at the Pardeys, without an engine, think of all the money and maint. they saved, and although I wouldn't go without an engine, you have to look at it as another adventure, not a disadvantage. Brandon
 
#49 ·
PBzeer said:
No need to apologize dawndreamer, they are everywhere. One thing that has been going around in my head though is what you would be doing to need $50k a year to cruise.
Thanks John. $50k a year certainly seems excessive to me. Our average monthly expenses during our six years of cruising the French canals were under $1800 Canadian, and that included moorage, insurance, maintenance, fuel, daily bottles of wine and wonderful fresh produce, as well as dining-out every few days.

With my new boat, as a term deposit earning 4%, my cruising kitty will give me CA$2,500 per month. This should be more than ample, particularly since the boat will be on warranty, and will require fewer repair dollars from my own wallet for the first two or three years. I anticipate that the kitty will grow. When my old age security and CPP pensions kick-in, they will add CA$1,600 per month to the pot and bring the annual income to nearly CA$50,000. The boat will be a bit older then, nearing the end of its warranty and will likely require a bigger repair/maintenance budget; however, I don't think that I will be able to use the entire income, and the kitty will continue to grow. This should give me a nice nest egg to come ashore with if/when I become tired/incapable of cruising.
 
#50 ·
As I read these threads with the theme "go now...go small...but go" I think about all the cruising couples we've come in contact with over the last few years and it seems to me that the vast majority of the boats that I will call "campers" have packed it in. Some because the money ran out, some because it wasn't fun anymore and some because one of the two said "enough".
Living on a small boat at anchor for extended periods of time requires a LOT of adjustment and most couples are not up to it. It is tough enough on a larger boat. Interestingly, I see a lot of single guys on small boats that have been doing it for a while and seem happy enough.

OK...I'll get to my point. If you are considering living aboard and cruising, it is easy for the dream to obscure the reality. I think you have to be very realistic about what level of comfort and inconvenience you can put up with for years on end. If you are not honest about this with yourself, you will end up unhappy and with a short cruise. There is a huge difference for a couple living aobrd a 40+ foot boat with complete systems and going off on a 30 footer. It costs a lot more to buy AND live aboard the larger boat so that means delaying cruising or adjusting the duration planned if 40'+ is what will work for you.
None of this is to say "don't go small"... just be sure you BOTH can handle it. I do subscribe to the theory of GO as soon as you are able to do it in the manner which will make you happy!
 
#127 ·
Blu,

I think when we do the big cruise it is going to be very much with a shoestring approach perhaps similar to yours.....Like I said in my above post we have a modernised and slightly modified 'Pardey' approach.

We currently have a 27 footer, yet are members of club where most of the cruising folk are retiree's in 40-50 footers. We sometimes get the reaction you talked about as well, but most of them are pretty welcoming and aren't much worried that we are slumming around with them in our little boat. Alot of them started themselves in similar sized boats.

I think Sailnet is pretty similar, I don't think there is a fight to be had here Blu. No one here has ever judged me for the size of my boat or the style of my sailing here.

I also think Cam made a very good point earlier as well....



I guess its simple, most of us spend what we can afford to spend at a level that provides an acceptable level of comfort.

Having said that.... Could we all benefit from toughening up a bit?? Probably :)
 
#51 ·
waverider

(I apologize in advance for the many misspellings & the multiple postings. I wanted to make sure that he got it, though...)

Waverider,

I am amazed. I am really amazed at some of the the things you have said. Why do you say things like that?

It is obvious to me that you have the maturity level of someone about 15 years old. I have not cruised as much as many people on this forum, but quite a bit. The one common theme we all have had is the ability to get together and have fun. We don't see nationalities or scream about George Bush, or whatever. I love my country. It does have problems, many of them. But let me tell you one thing about the typical AMerican you so quickly have addressed as worthless & uneducated, we care for people and we try to do the right thing. THe right thing does not always turn out correctly. The right thing is not always easy. But better to try and fail than never to try at all. Right now, as we speak, there are Americans losing their lives or being seriously wounded in a country that is not theirs, for a people that I am not sure even care about them (or each other). To even insinuate that they (troops) are over there doing mass murder is Bullshit (excuses my language). I do not doubt that there are a lot of special interst groups/people with hidden agendas - what war has not had them? But 99.99% of AMericans and I would wager 100% of the troops are over there because they believe in what they are doing to try and help others. They have integrity and care for human life. I support our soldiers other there 110% - regarless of GB or whether the war can ever be won. Any of you soldiers (whether British, Aussie, or any other nationality and especially AMERICAN) reading this, thank you for what you do. And understand one more thing: I did not say I want the war or George Bush.

I love Canadians, and Canada, and Cuba. I have met some awesome people in Jamaica, Brazil, and sooo many other countries... and never once have any of them even slightly shared the anamosity you have. You embarrass your self and you embarrass your country. America and Canada have been friends for a very long time.

The problem with the internet is that people will say things here that they would NEVER say in person. As for you, Waverider, let me just tell you that you will be the most lonely person in the most crowded anchorage. Read this very carefully, if you read nothing else: Cruising is about understanding different people and differnet cultures and coming closer to nature and what life really is all about. That is what I have tried to instill in my children, and still do. Too bad you did not learn that. Maybe there is still time... or it will be the quickest cruise you ever heard of. ANd if you hate my coutry and my people sooooo much, than don't use our technology, don't cross our borders, and stay out of our waters. Sound inconvenient? Too freaking bad. You can sail to Cuba by way of the North Pole for all I care. Tell Hugo Chavez hello on your way through.

I have spent wayyyyyy too much time on this forum when I could have been doing other things with my kids and wife or spending it just for myself. I did it because I have tried to help people & because I care about other people and cruisers in general. We share a common theme and the one thing I have always loved about sailors is thier lack of recognition of governments as what defines a country & its people. That concept, Waverider, is obviously beyond your comprehension too.

You have offended me and coutless others to be sure... and I bet they are not all American. Quite candidly, if you were one of my kids and I caught you writing some crap like you have in this and other threads, you would get a really good spanking and get grounded until you came to appreciate other people and other cultures. WHy you think it is funny to intentionally try and hurt people is beyond me. It is against anything I have ever seen in sailing or cruising.

That being said, enough time here. After re-reading through this and becoming increasingly frustrated that any of the information I have ever typed could help someone like you, l think I will start spending more time with my family and espcially my kids. Maybe I will let them re-read some of the things you have wrote so that they might learn how not to act... but then again, I think they have already learned most of that. I am done with Sailnet for a while, maybe longer.

Regards,

- CD

PS Waverider, if you are a minor, as I suspect, I do apologize about the small profanity... but that is it. Change your life and see if you can find a friend.
 
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