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Old 11-22-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post

I have yet to see any real PROOF other than a few unsubstantiated opinions that more people are risking their lives because of the use of chart plotters. It is kind of like saying because you have a better chance of surviving an accident with a seatbelt we will all drive faster and risk more.

Statistics show the numbers are down...hard to justify people are taking risks you are speculating on.

I am not deaf or blind and even if there are here many that have sailed much more than me I have been around for some decades and more than 20 000nm. 10 years ago it was very rare to hear a mayday call. In this season I head 5 or 6 and as you now the VHF range is pretty limited.

JonEisberg has a lot more experience and has much more sailing miles and shares the same opinion in what regards this.



Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Statistics show the numbers are down...


The only statistics I know off that have direct relation with deep sea boat accidents are this ones and show an increase in marine accidents:





Regarding the others that were posted it was already explained that they are not specific to boat accidents, much less to deep water boat accidents. In fact boat accidents (all of them considered) are just a minority. I have post the British Coast guard map that shows on Britain the localization of all SAR. As you can see most happen on the shore not on deep sea. I could not find similar information relating to US coast guard but given the nature of the accidents a US map would probably show a much similar situation.




I am very interested in that new data that makes you say this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Statistics show the numbers are down...
As you never speculate I am really interested in seeing that new data that allow you to say that.


This do not seem to makes sense to me and certainly it was not what I meant:

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
..So you relly think people with EPIRBS take a risk f their lives r the boats because they think they can get rescued. You have very little faith or real world knowledge of people to assume this. Especially with data which says the opposite. Prove you assumption. Find ten people on on Sailnet with EPIBS. Then ask them if they risk their lives or boats more. Go ahead. Lets see if you can o that.
I use an Epirps and everyone that sails offshore should use one and of course I am more confident going offshore on passage with one than without one, otherwise I would have not spend money on it and I guess this is common to all that use them.

It seems you didn't understood that what I said have essentially nothing to do with Epirps. I will repost the essential to make it clear to you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
What I am saying is that an Epirb will make a lot more easy for you to be rescued, it will not give you any help in learning how to sail a boat in bad weather.

What I am saying is that a GPS and a plotter will make it very easy to go from point A to point B, if you get good weather. If you get a storm while under way it will be as difficult as before. On big Ocean crossings that take several weeks even today's technology will not make you able to skip totally bad weather.

What I am saying is that because it is a lot more easy to go to point a to point b, if you got good weather, there are today much more inexperienced sailors attempting to do that thinking that Plotter and GPS will make it easy.

Those sailors if they had no plotter or GPS would have found it very difficult to do that and would have to get some real experience before attempting that.

But when the inexperienced sailors gets bad weather under way (that would not be a problem from an experienced sailor) they will find suddenly that after all it was not so easy and that they realy don't know how to cope with it.
...
What I am saying is that an Epirb or a plotter will not improve your skills in bad weather. You certainly agree with this?

and I am saying that it is much easier to navigate a long passage or to cross an ocean with a GPS (and a plotter) than without GPS. You certainly agree with this too?

When there was no plotters or GPS, to do a long passage, or to cross oceans, it was a lot more difficult and demanded a much more experienced sailor. Many of the sailors that today cross oceans would not have crossed them if they had no GPS, simply because they lacked the knowledge. The knowledge needed to navigate an Ocean without GPS is not an immediate one, as with a plotter, it takes many years to learn and therefore no inexperienced sailor could cross an ocean.

Today I know of guys that go for crossings oceans or even bigger voyages without any significant experience. They do that because a GPS and a plotter makes easy for them the navigation and does not require years of practice that were needed to navigate without GPS or plotter, otherwise they would not be able to navigate.

The plotter, the GPS, makes the life very easy in what regards navigation but would no teach that guy anything about sailing in bad weather. If he was crossing without a GPS, the years of practice needed to do that you have provide him with experience regarding sailing in bad weather too.

No, don't confuse things. I Think the the plotter, the GPS and the Epirb are great and make the live easier to everybody, what I am saying is that modern technology, making navigation easy increased the number of non experienced sailors that attempt to make passages or cross oceans, simply because without GPS you could not navigate an ocean without being experienced and now you can. Certainly you will agree with this too?

That is essentially my point.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-22-2012 at 05:29 PM.
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