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My Mum-in-Law is nervous about her daughter going out an such a large ocean in a small boat and wants to buy me an EPIRB. I'm not sure she knows how much they cost ($700US and up), but let's assume she does. I have a Catalina 25 and don't see myself going much larger; I intend to daysail and overnight out of Portsmouth Harbor (NH, USA) with cruising trips once or twice a year up the Maine coast for a week or two at a time.
Obviously, if my boat disappears beneath the waves and I find myself doing an inventory of my buoyant gear, an EPIRB would be a great comfort (as would a few packets of saltines and a romance novel); but I wonder if that is the best use of $700+ for safety gear. Do other sailors doing what I do have them?
In my reading, it seems like the most likely fate to befall a 'squared away' sailor close to the coast is being run down by a 'less squared away' sailor or a merchant ship. I don't wish to tempt fate, but let's assume that I don't blow my boat up, burn it down, end up as an MOB, or hit a marked reef. I know that is assuming a lot, bear with me. That leaves 3 fates:
1. Massive or multiple gear failure that leaves me with the Westerlies pushing me further and further out to sea.
2. Hitting a shipping container. (a favorite of many paranoids)
3. Being run over by a 'yahoo'.
Since the automatic EPIRBs are even more expensive, I'd be getting one that is manually deployed; if someone on board is able to that, it seems like a VHF with the new AIS capability would be nearly as good. I understand they have a 'mayday' button of some sort that transmits your coordinates. Then again, that requires that the boat is in more or less one piece after the incident. And now I've gone and talked myself back into an EPIRB.
So I guess the question is, "What's the best use of a $700 safety budget for a coastal cruising boat?."
1. EPIRB
2. Chartplotter and AIS VHF
3. Assortment of jack lines, tethers and good PFDs
No need to renew if they are not using it. Maybe they are hikers or skiers or pursue other outdoor activities? Maybe Boat US rents this stuff out( PLB, AIS, EPIRB, Liferafts to the coastal sailors?
We have a spot and discontinued use. For 99 sends the same message you cant change right? How often does it update GPS setting? I would rather have a PLB send the emergency signal than the spot.
The USCG has “Rescue 21” in your area. It is designed to work with your DSC radio. The coasties have really good radios, powerful amplifiers and transmitters and really tall antennas. I would hazard to guess that there is nowhere in your intended cruising grounds where there isn’t coverage. If you are unsure, contact your local USCG and ask them. I have both EPIRB and DSC. For coastal sailing, DSC would be the first button I’d push. Paulo is mostly correct insomuch that the VHF will work (vary marginally) without an antenna. You can either purchase an emergency antenna or make one yourself with an antenna from an auto parts store and a connector (you will have to have some basic soldering skills). If you are still worried, get a second waterproof handheld VHF to keep on your (or your wife’s person). AIS is great, but it won’t work unless the other boat has a transmitter, and not all fishermen go to that expense. How many large commercial ships do you plan on encountering? Do you plan on sailing at night, in fog or low visibility? EPIRBs are wonderful, but your emergency will still require routing through the USAF in Florida then perhaps a second pass of the satellite to get a fix, then routed to the local USCG, followed by a call to your contact number, then they will try to contact you by radio (and other boats in your area) before they scramble a rescue launch. Why not cut out all the middle men and use your radio first?
......EPIRBs are wonderful, but your emergency will still require routing through the USAF in Florida then perhaps a second pass of the satellite to get a fix, then routed to the local USCG, followed by a call to your contact number, then they will try to contact you by radio (and other boats in your area) before they scramble a rescue launch. Why not cut out all the middle men and use your radio first?
One should have both, but a VHF is what I would choose for a coastal passage, if I could only have one.
I have this in my ditchbag (or maybe the model just prior to it). VHF, DSC and GPS all in one. I also bought the optional AA battery adapter and keep a sleeve of spare batteries in the bag as well.
My Advice comes from being the guy in the air looking for boats and crew in the ocean, USAF HC-130 working with RCC and the Coast Guard. Get the PLB and make sure it worn, it's much easier to find you if we have something to home in on.
I guess you have a point. The DSC will give you also the position but only when the radio is emitting. If the boat goes down it is easier to bring a PLB unless you bring to the life-raft a portable VHF with DSC.
If so not only he can continue to emit a signal with the position and even if the radio has a smaller range you should not have trouble to pick it up having as reference the last GPS point that the main VHF DSC radio has emitted. The portable radio even will allow direct communication with you and facilitate the rescue.
You can have both PLB and VHF w dsc for 700 who says you have to chose.
Those of you who boat in colder waters than I do most of the time, do you all carry liferafts?
Question, when you cruise Maine do you all have liferafts? Do you have survival or imersion suits?
Do you have anything special in the raft to keep you warm?
...Question, when you cruise Maine do you all have liferafts? Do you have survival or imersion suits?
Do you have anything special in the raft to keep you warm?...
No coincidence that I had my raft re-certified before my trip in '11.
I'm sure you are going to learn that many do not have a raft, but many don't have all kinds of proper safety gear. If you chase the averages, you're destine to be average.
We have a space blanket in our raft to use for warmth, if necessary. There are supplies packed right inside the compressed raft, in addition to the ditchbag. However, being inside a covered raft should extend your survivability long beyond the time it takes for a coastal rescue. If you are on a real offshore passage, you do need to consider staying warm for days. Insulated, double wall floors, etc.
My main fear is falling overboard. To that end, I have a PLB in my pocket, and a Standard Horizon handheld VHF with GPS and DSC. $500 for the pair. The handheld VHF also acts as a backup to the main VHF.
Prevention is better than cure, though, so have a good restraint system.
For general safety I have the Standard Horizon GX2150, with AIS & DSC. I networked it to the Lowrance HDS-5M so I have AIS targets on the chartplotter display, and GPS data on the VHF which it needs for one-touch distress calling. $800 for this pair.
I do think one-touch distress calling has significant advantages. If you only have time to do one thing, would it be make a voice call in a hurry that may or may not get through, or have the radio send your vessel details, and precise location, repeatedly until it gets an acknowledgement? In many scenarios, it's quite an advantage to be able to hit the button and then carry on with what you are doing.
The AIS saved our bacon just yesterday, in fog - and it's 10 times more useful if you can see the vessels from the helm, on a chartplotter.
The great thing about a sailboat is, you're never stuck for an idea for a Christmas / Birthday present.
I think that Standard Horizon VHF with DSC and GPS is one of the best inventions ever for single handed coastal sailors. Why? Because you have one touch distress calling, on your belt (if that's where you put it), with your gps co-ordinates attached to the message. The coastguard WILL get the message if you are anywhere off the US.
I have much more faith in that digital message getting through than trying to relay my coordinates over voice. The coastguard has excellent antennas, while the handheld has a 6" one, so it is quite likely that you will be able to reach them, but not hear them back.
I hear talk between the coastguard and distressed vessels every day. Communication over analog can be quite difficult and prone to error. That's why the DSC system was invented. They haven't spent all those millions on equipment just for a laugh, it was to help save lives.
The combination of VHF with DSC and GPS, and a PLB, is excellent - the radio brings them coming, the PLB's 121.5 mhz analog beacon lets them find you even if the 406 mhz digital message hasn't been relayed through SARSAT.
And you can bet a DSC message AND SARSAT one together from the same vessel is going to help convince them that the situation is a real emergency.
$500 well spent.
With one touch of the DSC button, the CG (and anyone else nearby) gets :
My MMSI no, which account contains :
My name
My vessels name
Description of vessel
Usual sailing area
Emergency contact names and numbers
GPS co-ordinates
Type of emergency (optional)
I'm sure you are going to learn that many do not have a raft, but many don't have all kinds of proper safety gear. If you chase the averages, you're destine to be average.
We have a space blanket in our raft to use for warmth, if necessary. There are supplies packed right inside the compressed raft, in addition to the ditchbag. However, being inside a covered raft should extend your survivability long beyond the time it takes for a coastal rescue. If you are on a real offshore passage, you do need to consider staying warm for days. Insulated, double wall floors, etc.
I wasnt asking to prove a point. One of the things I am looking at is whether I should get a liferaft. We do travel in water on our trips of 50 degrees and you were right about the survuval times in that water. I know very few have life rafts. Do people have any special immersion suits etc?
...I wasnt asking to prove a point. One of the things I am looking at is whether I should get a liferaft. We do travel in water on our trips of 50 degrees and you were right about the survuval times in that water. I know very few have life rafts. Do people have any special immersion suits etc?
The trouble with immersion suits is whether you will have time to get them on. I've worn my fair share and they are difficult to put on when standing ashore. I can't imagine it on a pitching deck, especially if there were a catastrophic event or if you had anything else to do at the same time.
The best way to mount a liferaft is either on top of the cabin, or on the stern rail, inside a box that auto deploys if underwater. In fact, I believe this is the only legal way to do so, if one is required aboard. You may end up in the water quicker than you expected, but since you're already wearing your PFD, you only need to survive long enough to swim to the deployed raft. No guarantee, but you should make it.
Admittedly, I have my raft in a raft locker between the two helms. It weighs roughly 80 pounds (6 place with canopy and pre-packaged survival equip), but I am absolutely assuming that during that crisis, just about anyone would find the strength to get it out, clip on the tether, toss her to leeward and pull the cord. Since someone has to be at the helm, even smashing into a container should allow enough time to do so. Nevertheless, auto deploy is better.
Rafts can be very expensive and are anywhere around a grand to recertify every three years. Its very common for people to let them go longer, especially if vacuum packaged and kept dry. These guys are excellent and sell recertified used rafts, if one is on a budget. They will be very honest with whether the raft is suitable for your needs and their opinion about its ongoing longevity.
The combination of VHF with DSC and GPS, and a PLB, is excellent - the radio brings them coming, the PLB's 121.5 mhz analog beacon lets them find you even if the 406 mhz digital message hasn't been relayed through SARSAT.
Lots of good discussion here. I tend to be a technology Luddite and an adherent of the KISS principle. I sail coastal waters, normally within VHF range of a CG radio station or at least fishing vessels. No EPIRB. I have a DSC VHF and a hand held in my ditch bag. No AIS but I have radar. No liferaft, but I tow my Avon dingy or keep it on the foredeck, inflated. I feel that I have an adequate Emergency Response plan.
I imagine that when I get around to making long distance ocean passages in this boat, I will invest in an EPIRB and a liferaft. For now, there are more worthwhile ways to spend the boat budget (like new standing rigging and sails).
The number of advertised places is just like tents. At capacity, they are very crowded. The only way you are filling them to capacity is with everyone sitting around the outside, with their knees in their chest. Its very uncomfortable. Assume you need two more places than you have people you might actually put inside. ie. A 4 place for a cruising couple works.
Also, if you've never practiced getting aboard a life raft from the water, you probably have no idea how difficult it can be. The smartest option one can buy is an inflatable boarding ramp. Once you've tried the standard web ladders, you'll get it. Boarding practice is part of Day 2 of the Safety at Sea program.
As for getting in a dinghy in an emergency. Have you tried it from the water? How about with an inflated PFD in your way? I have trouble stepping in from the boat in rocking anchorage, can't imagine it in open water seas over a couple of feet. Then staying aboard is also questionable.
Yes, but the other way is a problem too... If the raft if too big you get thrown around in it.
Mine is a 10 man liferaft and last time I looked I didn't have any crew at all... No one to boss about, no one to kiss and scream at whilst anchoring... Woe is me sitting in a big empty liferaft being tossed about.
Mind you, there's no one to tell me when I've made a little smell :laugher
Yes I have taken this and was amazed at how hard it was with the nylon wed to climb up.
I wouldbe looking for a 4 person as itys just my wife and I and mounted in front of the mast. We are only a 35 footer and dont have the space behind the cockpit
Yes. I will buy a Garmin 18x GPS and hardwire it to the VHF (I see now that this wasn't clear in my post). It should serve as a backup GPS if I program a waypoint for the harbor entrance and maybe my mooring. Even without that, it will deliver latt & long; I always have paper charts.
I worry about being over reliant on the netbook because, well, Windows.
The VHF will also give me SOG and COG; I'll have to put on my glasses to see it...
This is one thing I just don't understand. You can get VHF with AIS, but needs a GPS attached, you can get VFH with GPS, but no AIS, but you can't get VFH with GPS AND AIS? I've looked all over, but haven't found one yet.
My phone has GPS, my Camera has GPS, but they can't stick a GPS chip in a VFH along side the AIS hardware... just seems silly.
While I'm ranting why does an AIS transmitter cost so much money? It's just a digital VHF signal, like DSC isn't it? You can receive and display AIS on a <$300 dallor device that can send digital VFH signals, and has your GPS position (fed in from another GPS cause it won't fit in the VHF with the AIS chip) but to send that GPS signal out over the digital VFH airwaves is going to cost you another $700 for a transponder? Seems like a crock to me. I guess it's all still new enough they need to recover the research costs, and as time goes on, they'll likely get more integrated, perhaps I'm just to impatient.
But seriously, if anyone knows why this is I'd be very interested in a technical answer.
This is one thing I just don't understand. You can get VHF with AIS, but needs a GPS attached, you can get VFH with GPS, but no AIS, but you can't get VFH with GPS AND AIS? I've looked all over, but haven't found one yet.
The AIS version doesn't have integrated GPS. It's not really a big deal because connecting the two is pretty simple. And now there are VHF radios with NMEA 2000 interfaces so it's really just plug and play.
I think the first question is easily answered; the VHF needs input from a GPS to do its job (range to this; bearing to that; etc). Since the radio lives below deck it will need a GPS antenna in addition to the GPS 'chip'. Since most boats already have the GPS data available, the manufacturers don't bother to include any GPS functionality with the radio. Most likely the extra circuitry would be wasted when the skipper hooks up his existing chartplotter (via NMEA 0183).
While I would agree with many who have posted, that you could spend the same amount of money a little better, that's not what's on the table is it? Asking someone to get a few different safety items is a little too much like looking the gift horse in the mouth. If the concerned mother wants to buy you an EPIRB, let her. It'll make her feel better and it has very little downside to have aboard.
The ocean doesn't like me. It allows me passage at my own risk. I choose to wear a pfd that has a harness and have a PLB attached so that regardless of how a boat is equipped, I have some means of being rescued. I helped an owner move a boat who chose to buy interior accessories over basic safety and navigational equipment. Isn't it strange that smart people second guess their every move and idiots are full of confidence.
I think you're assuming that you have a seven hundred dollar safety budget but the rich and paranoid girlfriends' moms I've had didn't think like that.
If they thought she hould have an epirb then that's what they got. We didn't really get the same amount of cash worth of goods we thought more appropriate.
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