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post #3446 of Old 12-04-2012 Thread Starter
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Re: Dufour 410 Grand Large

Originally Posted by Sapwraia View Post
Paulo, that assesment is spot on - we chartered a 405 last summer in the Med for a week. Not much fun over 20 knots upwind, especially with a building sea. Sail reduction becomes an urgent thing; we did 20 miles to windward just a mile off the Turkish coast into a gusty sou-wester (28-35 knots). ... The flat bow sections just pounded as there was never enough speed available that close to the wind

..A nice stable downwind boat but our inshore upwind experience showed that "coastal cruiser" is not a genre of vessel which can happily ignore that scenario - often coastal weather conditions can be more severe that offshore in terms of wave / sea state, and proximity to a leeward shore is always on one's mind

Again coming back to the 410, and that type of boats that are particularly beamy with a relatively small B/D ratio and I mean beamy boats with a modern keels with ballast ratios between 24% and 28%, Yacht magazine made recently a comparative boat test that is exemplar.

They compared in the water a Jeanneau 30i with older boats, a Halberg-Rassy 29 and a vindo 40ft long keel, all the boats on the water with short waves and against wind of 20K and over.

The Jeanneau, that has a B/D ratio of only 24% on those conditions could not generate enough poor to match the performance of those older boats. Put it on even more severe conditions and the results would be even worse.

I am quite sure that with flat water the jeanneau would easely out perform at least the boat with the same size ans even probably the bigger boat. I am talking about 20K wind, with weak winds the Jeanneau would just disappear on the horizon.

This problem is a generic problem with these type of boats, I am thinking for instance on the Oceanis 41. The Dufour 410 would not even be among the worst since it has a better B/D than the Jeanneau 30i and also better than the Oceanis 41. There are boats with this kind of beamy hull and a much better B/D. These ones like the new Hanse 415 would have a better performance since they can generate more power, but at the cost of a bigger pounding.

A boat like the XP33 would have smoked those two oldies even upwind. It is a boat not as beamy as the Jeanneau and with a much bigger B/D and that means not only less pounding (and wave drag) but also a lot more power for the same heeling. The mass production boats that are not so beamy and have a bigger B/D ratio are those that are called performance cruisers, like the Salona, the First, the Xp, Jboats or the Comet. That's why some sailors that have no racing in their minds prefer those boats over the typical mass production cruiser, I mean, for cruising.

As I have said, for cruisers that just don't go upwind with winds over 13/15K, and that are most cruisers, mass productions cruisers offer a bigger interior, a more stable platform in most occasions as well as a boat that offers very good overall speed (except on that particular case).

For the ones that think I am exaggerating when I say that most cruisers don't go upwind with a considerable wind I remember the words of my wive this summer on one of the more frequented sailboat European zones: " Only you go upwind with this weather" she complained (she was seasick) while I enjoyed myself discovering the good performance of my boat on those conditions, close against the wind with 1.5/2.0m short period waves and 18K wind. I looked around hooping to show her some other boats. bad luck, in all horizon I could see some sailboats....all going downwind, except one that was pounding heavily, motoring upwind.

Don't miss the VIDEO:



Last edited by PCP; 12-04-2012 at 01:59 PM.
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