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Old 12-10-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post

Quote PCP:
He made absurd statements to convince the crew to follow him in this adventure(the Bounty would be more safe at sea than in a port).


... the speculation- that they were absurd and that he made the statement to convince the crew to follow him.
Sometimes I think, that you did not learn anything with this thread and did not really changed opinion regarding the first statements you have made here.

It is obviously a very stupid and wrong thing to say that a XVII century designed wood ship is more safe in a port than at sea in what regards facing a hurricane. This is no speculation is a fact. Regarding a ship the first concern of a no reckless captain is not with his boat but with his crew and they would be much safer on land than out on the sea facing an Hurricane. Where is the speculation here?

If not to dismiss the huge risk the crew would take sailing into a hurricane and to convince them to follow him in this adventure why do you think the Captain had said then that the Ship would be more safe at sea than in Port?

Where is the speculation here

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post

Try and really differentiate between the actual facts, and the conclusions drawn from those facts as well as speculation and theorizing.

Quote PCP:
He knew that the boat made water, that the bilges where not clean and that obviously could lead to clogging of the pumps in the event of flooding and even so sailed way to unnecessarily face terrible weather.


... the speculation- the water ingress was normal and the failed pump was caused by a clogged pump not operator error
Here I have some difficulty in understanding what you mean but that should be my bad English as you are always pointing out

"The water ingress was normal"???

I did no state that the water ingress was not normal, or abnormal I just stated that the boat was making water and that the Captain new that. Where is the speculation here?!!! I did not state that the pumps had failed because they were clogged, I stated that they were clogged and that had obvious consequences on their poor performance. Stated also that the Captain knew that the Bilges were dirt and that would cause the clogging of the pumps in the eventuality of prolonged use.

Where is the speculation here? All facts.

Operator error on the pumps???? if someone on that boat deserves credit is Barksdale, the one responsible by engines and pumps working.

It seems that you don't read what is posted on this thread. Barksdale had stated that the pumps were clogged and that they, including the Captain were despairingly trying to unclog the pumps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post

Try and really differentiate between the actual facts, and the conclusions drawn from those facts as well as speculation and theorizing.

Quote PCP:
He could be a very nice man, a quality but all these facts tell us, without doubt, that he was a reckless captain. This are facts Dave, not snippets of information neither hysterical assumptions


See I could agree with this if the statement said he was a reckless Captain in this instance, but thats not what is meant. Now you are trying to say he was always a reckless Captain in general.
...

....
I am not trying to say that he, as a Captain, was reckless, I am stating that.

And I am saying that because unlike what you are saying this was not an isolated incident, it was just the one where he run out of luck. He was taking unreasonable risks with that boat and the crew for a long time.

As it was stated by him, the organization, the crew and his wife, the ship had been sailed by him previously several times in hurricanes or near hurricanes. Considering that XVII century designed wooden ship that is a reckless behavior that only a reckless captain would indulge.

No speculation, here, just facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
the speculation- from only the social bloggers not the first hand observers that he was reckless... The contiual theories and conjecture base on a few snippets of information is actually reckless in itself.
....
You mean, reckless the ones that consider him reckless based in facts???

Dave, that does not make sense!

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 12-10-2012 at 11:21 AM.
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