Originally Posted by monsieur bis
I saw the XP33 at the Nautique and I have to say I was left a little puzzled. It seemed to me neither super fast (it's too heavy for that at 4,300kg) nor with enough amenities down below to be useable as anything more than a weekend cruiser, and even then it's pretty spartan down below. The WC for example is basically unusable the way it is set up now.
I realize that my reaction is purely personal and that it's hard to get the balance right between speed and cruisability in a boat like this. For example, I prefer the bargain struck in the new Winner 9.00. See images attached.
Welcome to the thread and thanks for having posted. It seems a very interesting sailboat.
A little introduction for the ones that don't know winner yachts: Winner yachts is a Dutch shipyard that, as almost all Dutch shipyards, makes high quality and somewhat expensive sailboats. He has being doing so on the last 26 years.
Initially the boats were sportive and fast (the brand was founded by two offshore racing sailors) but with the time their designs become a bit outdated, were not renovated fast enough in what regards sailboat design improvements and the boats were not fast anymore (at least compared with other performance cruisers).
Then some 5 years ago things changed with the Winner 12.20, a boat that was already posted on this thread, a modern boat with a great B/D ratio, a fast and seaworthy boat with a great high quality interior. I have been inside that boat and I was impressed with the quality.
The boat is a performance boat and a great cruiser but in what regards s a dual purpose utilization, meaning while racing, it is not a match for other performance boats. It was not a big success (I guess because it was expensive) and its racing record is quite small. He just won some minor races. More then a great dual purpose boat the Winner 12.20 was and his a fantastic high quality seaworthy fast cruising boat, one that I wouldn't mind to own
It seems that they have survived the low number of sales (Dutch are a very faithful kind if clients) and presented another modernly designed boat, a 30ft designed by Cees van Tongeren (Van de Stadt design) .
Looking at the design information it seems to be a fantastic boat, light (3 100Kg) with a good D/B (39%) with a moderate draft and a relatively modern hull.
Of course I don't believe that weight is the one of the classic version, that I think was the one showed on Bis photos, but the one regarding the performance version that probably will be as naked as the Xp33.
Comparing with the XP 33, that is a bigger boat, the Disp/Lenght rario will not be much different (171.1 to 166) being slightly lower on the winner but that is partly due to a bigger ballast ratio on the Xp (40% to 39%). Both boats share similar draft, similar keels and somewhat similar hulls in what regards Length-to-Beam Ratio but there are some differences being (in my opinion) the XP hull a more modern one and one that would offer a better performance, specially in what regards planning and downwind sailing.
The differences regards rocker on the forward sections (bigger on the Winner), finer entries, beam more aft and a transom more adequate to easy downwind control, one that will provide also more hull form stability.
A bigger rocker on the forward sections will eventually give the winner a slightly better sea motion but will not make as easy the transition to planning.
Regarding the transom and the big more carried aft (that is not extreme in the Xp 33) I can see no justification for that. It seems to me that the Xp is just a more modern and effective hull design.
Regarding the Xp being an incredibly fast boat, well, after the enthusiastic reactions of all that sailed the boat, including boat testers, it seems that there is no doubt about that and I have no doubt that it will be a winner on the race course.
We will have to wait to see if the winner will be a winner
and how it compares with the Xp 33, but I have no doubt the the winner 9.00 is a great and very fast cruising boat with a interior more luxurious than the one of the Xp 33. That if course, comes with a price.
The 30ft winner costs € 102.330 with 21% VAT included. It looks to me that they are making an effort regarding price of previous boats.
The Xp33 (bigger boat), that is also an expensive boat costs with the same VAT 127.000 euros but that really means little in comparative terms. To be meaningful we would have to see what was the specifications offered at that price.