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The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??

119K views 908 replies 179 participants last post by  captain jack 
#1 ·
I'm curious on opinions on this one. When Baby boomers were in their 20's there were lots of them in small capable sailboats (some they made themselves) cruising across oceans; but now-a-days the majority of twenty-year olds appear to be utterly useless. I just don't get it, and I'm in my twenties, and cruising.


I'm also curious as to where people think the future of the sailing industry is going if there are so few young people involved?

Any thoughts?
 
#744 ·
Wow, Jack, those are some powerful and righteous words. For me the whole thread was worth it just to read that. You have a gift for writing, and as your oldest friend says - a gift for story telling too. I wish you peace in your life, and don''t measure it by house mortgages years or job status titles. Its in the positive things you do and how they affect others. FWIW I wish for someone like you on every one of my building projects.
 
#746 · (Edited)
The future of the sailing world. Why are there so few young people cruising??
Here is a bit of my take on this topic.

I would love to go out cruising now. I'm 35 and my boat is paid for. Some more work needed for long distance cruising, but, I can't go anywhere. I work in the military and can't get released yet.

I think the idea that hard work now and enjoy yourself later is what is expected by society as a whole. Otherwise, you're not considered to be a major contributor to the society and economy.

so, many people get trapped in the work force, paying off student debts and doing what is expected of them and doing what is "normal" according to friends and family.

For me, my boat is not very big but I feel I could live on it easily enough. I like to keep things simple. My fiancee and I were talking recently about all the things we have to do just to get by in life with work, home, sitting in traffic, waking up early etc. She said how much she would like to live more simply like she did when she was younger. Yet, according to her, living on a boat for any amount of time is not an option.

Still, there is that sense of doing what is expected and doing what is "normal" and generally accepted. Many people, I think like to keep things well within their comfort zone.

Because many people are raised to work hard now and have fun when you're older, the sense of adventure doesn't get passed down to their children and the cycle continues. If I didn't get exposed to sailing when I was in high school, I probably would not have given it much thought myself.

Laziness probably has a part in it too. As mentioned before, people are used to instant gratification. While hard work at ones employment may be expected maybe not so much in other aspects of life.

Everyone's goals are different in what they want out of life. Personally, I think it's important to get the most out of life sooner as our lives could end at any moment. Getting the younger generations exposed to sailing could help increase participation.

If you want to see more younger folks out on the water, then go be a mentor and teach your kids, grandkids or anyone else who can stand you long enough :D
 
#747 ·
reading back over it, I see there are too many typos, though. lol. aol likes to boot me right after I have taken a lot of time writing something, causing me to lose it all, so I tend to rush posting more than I should...before I have had enough proof reading time.
 
#749 · (Edited)
Lots of good perspectives here whether it's from bljones, hanna2, or captain jack.

Just a question, were there really a lot more baby boomers cruising in their 20's than the 20 year olds of today? Or is that just an assumption we have that would seem to make sense?

To me there is little doubt that the 20 year olds of today on average are starting out in more precarious financial circumstances than I did. I'm not sure what the options are for a kid in their 20s who wants to cruise but has to deal with substantial college debt. Can they get a boat and put off loan payments some how?

At the same time I think it's true that if you're a kid that's managed to get your way through college, you could probably find a way to raise the money to spend a year cruising if you wanted it bad enough. But it might mean making sacrifices and taking risks that earlier generations didn't have to, … at least not to the same extent.

We have talked about some of the disadvantages the kids of today might have, but there are advantages too, - namely technology. And I'm not just talking about the technology involved sailing itself. The Internet is an amazing resource that not only can help you find a boat, but put you in touch with plenty of people who have done what you are setting out to do. A lot of the logistics, planning, and outfitting can be done from the comfort of your home.

Oh and good luck to you Captain Jack. I have no doubt that cruising is in your future if that's a path you choose to take. And if not, you'll be at peace with whatever you end up doing. Call me an optimist, but I think at some point a person with your work ethic, smarts, and sense of decency will be rewarded. I think in one of your posts you mentioned that some people seem to lead charmed lives. I've observed the same thing. I've also seen people get dragged down by getting entangled with people who seem to live constantly under a dark cloud. Avoid the latter if you can.
 
#750 ·
First time I cruised in S. Pacific I was 21 that's in 1972 or so. 50 % were young and fifty percent were old. It seems to be about the same today, nothing has really changed. At 21 I lived on a budget and today I live on almost the same budget % wise while cruising. Unlike mr dork that thinks if you own a good boat your rich, most of us are living in a pretty tight budget. Most of us busted our butt to get where we were and that went for the 1970's when baby boomers were in their 20's, nothing has changed. work hard, save, get rid of the man and buy a boat and go sailing.
 
#751 ·
i believe the thought that less younger people are cruising comes from statistcs. i will have to reread the original post, to be sure. one thing about statistcs, though, is that they can be interpreted to mean pretty much anything. plus, how did they accrue the inforation that was used to make these statistics? where was the data collected. all of that comes into play. you can never truly be sure of the accuracy of statistics. it could be much ado over nothing.

even if less are cruising now, what about as these generations age; as they get more disposable wealth, get more time, or have just fulfilled the expectations of society and are free to do their own thing? even if less are cruising now, it does not mean that they may not go cruising later in life.
 
#772 · (Edited)
i believe the thought that less younger people are cruising comes from statistcs. i will have to reread the original post, to be sure. one thing about statistcs, though, is that they can be interpreted to mean pretty much anything. plus, how did they accrue the inforation that was used to make these statistics? where was the data collected. all of that comes into play. you can never truly be sure of the accuracy of statistics. it could be much ado over nothing.

even if less are cruising now, what about as these generations age; as they get more disposable wealth, get more time, or have just fulfilled the expectations of society and are free to do their own thing? even if less are cruising now, it does not mean that they may not go cruising later in life.
I havent read the whole thread but I feel the need to quote this....

there are positively 100 percent sure less young people cruising now than say in the 60s or 70s (or before the advent of the internet...)when the solo sailing and around the world boom started becoming a sport that inspired many to set sail.

not to mention the hippie notion of travel...good or bad or whatever you may call them hippies actually did travel and sail, and live and work on boats in a frugal yet inspiring way...

when I was starting to cruise I did so after graduating early from high school, I was 17 and left california to go "home" that was el salvador,on my leaking but restored h28...my first vehicle was a sailboat, not a car!

the looks from teachers, students etc was baffling...the internet and all its associated hooplah had them so tied up that they had no freaking idea that you could do this, nor that there were people that had already done this at a young age generations ago...

I clearly remember dove being my first sailing book, gifted by my grandfather, then came tania aebi, then other books of renowned sailors, I read them all, from chichester to motissier to knox johnston...the roths, the pardeys later on, etc...

I still beleive to this day that the internet has stupified the masses WHILE improving and encouraging those that already had the feel or BUG to learn more...

I know its a very high up kind of remark but its true:)

there is absolutely no interest today in reading about other peoples adventures, finding unchartered lands, etc...in young people, those young sailors are for the most part racers, in clubs...the ones that sail and cruise are less than 1%.

the amount of times I laugh and cry at the same time nowadays when I see my generation go out to dinner, all on the iphone or stupid blackberries texting eachother, AT THE TABLE like they are in some sort of alterior stupid land blabbing away tweets about what they have done(which is nothing btw) makes me cringe!

im 32, and I have a 5 year old cracked cellphone that barely rings...thats considered stupid now, whereas reading and travelling are considered weird and dumb things to do now...

I dont speak for all of modern society but a huge percentage of it...

in any case I PREFER that less people cruise and travel and that sailing or cruising is not mainstream or as mainstream as it should be...why because the masses always always take away joy and the pristine beauty of the lands and places I want to see( abit egotistical I know, BUT think aout it) masses kill nature...its a fact.

if the pyramids in egypt for example had less people I would of been fascinated when I saw them...in fact the best part of the pyramids was the sunrise drive to them in a cab...I rememeber it being so impressive and serene to look at...as soon as I got to the base I cried inside.

same would apply to cruising and sailing destinations...

thats just me though...jajaja

peace guys:)
 
#756 ·
I think the fear is that without young people taking an interest in sailing, eventually it will fall into serious decline.

There are a number of recreational activities that experienced booms in the 70's in the U.S. that lost popularity later on including tennis and cycling.

Cycling is experiencing another boom as a method of transportation as cities look for ways to reduce car traffic. I suppose if gas got expensive enough people might take another look at sailing but it has to be made more accessible. As much as some of us might look down on the McGregor power sailors, they might be a key to what keeps sailing vital. Easy to own, easy to transport, and easy to rig. I could see better electronics playing a role in helping novices become better sailers by recommending changes in sail trim, etc.
 
#757 ·
I think the fear is that without young people taking an interest in sailing, eventually it will fall into serious decline.
Well, as far as I can tell, the interest in actually SAILING has already fallen into a serious decline - especially among those who happen to own Cruising Sailboats... :)

I could see better electronics playing a role in helping novices become better sailers by recommending changes in sail trim, etc.
Yup, just the sort of thing the Sailors of the Future will need, to help keep sailing alive...

A "Telltales App" for their iPhone... :)
 
#758 ·
More and more I'm seeing marina's getting rid of their smaller slips. Without small slips it becomes less affordable to say pick up a nice used Cat 25. This is a cause effect of ****ty government, easy money equals easy financing on new boats. Young couple see's pretty boat at show likes easy financing and monthly payment buys boat realizes its really expensive sells boat at huge loss gives up sailing.
 
#759 ·
I think the problem is more that young couples aren't spending their money on sailing at all, not that they're buying too much boat (although I'm sure there are examples of that too).

Personally I don't think the government is to blame for sailing's decline, - though a poor economy doesn't help.

For that matter I think the economic problems go deeper than republicans vs democrats. We are responsible for our own government anyway. Personally, I think we need to start questioning whether or current economic system can succeed over time. Labor is cheaper overseas and automation is cheaper still. Unless we make some drastic changes, there simply won't be that many good paying jobs. It doesn't matter much who is in office unless it is a collection of folks willing to be much bolder than most of the politicians we've have had over the last several decades.
 
#773 · (Edited)
Clearly my genius is lost on you people, but that's what I get for thinking outside the box. ;)

Sailing seems instinctive to you and to a certain extent to me since I learned how at a young age and have been doing it off and on for awhile.

It isn't instinctive to everybody. I spent some time sitting in sailboats this summer with people who had little or no sailing experience. Something as simple and as critical to sailing as knowing which way the wind is coming from isn't always obvious, - especially on a small lake where the wind shifts on a regular basis. Lots of big boats already have this, but something that clearly showed the newbie the orientation of the boat to the wind would be a tremendous help. Yes, telltales will show apparent wind which is arguably more important but actual vs apparent takes awhile to get a feel for. Something that shows both is helpful, especially if it could do it at the same time without having to fumble to change modes.

A "sailing by the lee" or accidental gybe warning indicator wouldn't be hard to add to the electronics that are available on lots of boats. Most of what's needed is already there. It might already exist. Like all technology, it can trickle down over time.

I don't have time to make a hugely long post but if any of you are divers and have been doing it for awhile, you probably know how dive computers have tremendously simplified dive planning and instruction. There are all kinds of alarms built in to them that people can turn off as they gain experience. The use of dive tables is barely taught anymore and has been replaced by dive computer instruction.

And to be clear, I'm not talking about smart phone apps. ;)

This will probably ruffle some feathers, but I think there is a certain contingent that don't want sailing to be easy. The ability to sail is like a badge of honor for them.
 
#774 ·
I was a sailing instructor for a brief period of time before getting married have a kid etc...and the above is simply true.

sailing is not a manistream activity, never will be...not only is it genetic(for the most part) and passed on from generations to generations..some poeple just cant learn the basics...

that doesnt mean they are dumb or cant eventually learn but they dont have the gene

by gene I mean stuff like can you feel the wind, do you instinctively move the tiller to get a better angle

stuff like that

here in el salvador there is a huge lack of knowledge about what even a sailbaot is...some people still cant grasp why sailboats dont constantly tip over(keel counterweight)

they are so afraid of going on a boat that they are paralyzed with fear, why? cause people drown all the time down here in pangas that get full of people on vacation...that fear gene is passed along generation to generation as well

the non swim gene is passed along too

anyone who denies this really hasnt had a chance to really see other humans in action! jajaja

we all like to see the world from our point of view...thing is its reciprocal...mountaineers and people who live in high elevation look at beach people like thet are aliens...city people cant accept that there is another lifestyle besides the tram, underground and tall buildings until they take the decision to travel...

people out in the country cant imagine what city life is REALLY like until they try it...

it is what it is...same for sailing
 
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#775 ·
You are right unimacs. There is a place for some kind of sensor/computer to optimize sailing performance and make recommendations based on conditions. We use our GPS like this sometimes, making adjustments to sails and then seeing the increase on the GPS. We couldn't tell by eye or feel if we were really doing any good.

I just thought of it as a more advanced thing to help you get better perfomance, rather than as a tool to teach a total noob to sail. .
 
#779 ·
in general my best friends are all older than me...my biggest friends and heartfelt companions will always be the spanish couple that took me halfway round the world on their boat...

the debt I have to older generations that inspired me will hopefully make me do the same to whatever younger generation that comes..or for now my newborn I guess!

funny how life is huh?

jeje
 
#780 ·
I know this a thread focused on cruising, but most of my sailing as a kid was done on a Laser. After going from that to windsurfers I took an all too long break from regular sailing.

One of the things that I have been surprised at since my recent return is the fact that the same small boats that were being sailed 30 or 40 years ago are still being made today. Whether it's Lasers or Sunfish or the MC scows that my club sails.

On the one hand I find that very cool. In our throwaway society I can find an old boat and go out there and race it against the brand new ones and they are fundamentally the same.

On the other hand it seems like small boat design has stagnated. Did we really reach the pinnacle of small boat design 40 or 50 years ago? I know Hobie has created new family oriented small boats, and I'm sure there are others. But it's almost as if small boat manufacturers are afraid to do anything new and instead count on the repeat business of one-design racers to survive. I don't think that's going to be a successful strategy in the long run.
 
#781 ·
...
On the other hand it seems like small boat design has stagnated. Did we really reach the pinnacle of small boat design 40 or 50 years ago? I know Hobie has created new family oriented small boats, and I'm sure there are others. But it's almost as if small boat manufacturers are afraid to do anything new and instead count on the repeat business of one-design racers to survive. I don't think that's going to be a successful strategy in the long run.
For boats that size, what would you suggest that they change in order to survive another 40-50 years?
 
#790 · (Edited)
i still think sailing doesn't need robo-sailboats.

it needs boats aimed at average income novices. simple, safe, fun sailboats. sailboats you comfortably sit in, not on. more tech doesn't make for lower prices, just the opposite. the cost of a new laser will already buy you a really nice used car. imagine what one would cost once it gets all star wars'd up. that is not going to encourage average people to buy a sailboat and learn the art of sailing. i think the boat manufactures spend way too much time focusing on the race crowd and the high dollar cruisers.

the premise towards robo-sailboats is that learning to sailo is too daunting. what is more daunting? a ton of computer crap to learn to use or one rope and a tiller? if you want to make sailing less daunting, wouldn't simpler be better?

adverise in non-sailing enthusiast media. there are some awesome sailing videos on youtube; videos that really make sailing look exciting and fun, not like a bunch of old dudes with money sitting in slow boats. manufactures and sailing schools and clubs need to use footage like that, or footage showing families out enjoying a fn day of sailing, in ads in the mass media. if you only advetise sailing and sailboats in sailing publications, how do you suppose you are going to get the word out to people who don't sail. those people don't buy sailing publications.

go to youtube. look up 'europe sailing in heavy wind', then tell me if that isn't the perfect ad for sailing. if you had a tv ad, using that video, you'd make sailing look more exciting than sex. well, maybe not that exciting, but you know what i mean. that would draw all those skateboarders and snow boarders and others that are into extreme sports and looking for some excitement.
 
#794 ·
i still think sailing doesn't need robo-sailboats.

it needs boats aimed at average income novices. simple, safe, fun sailboats. sailboats you comfortably sit in, not on. more tech doesn't make for lower prices, just the opposite. the cost of a new laser will already buy you a really nice used car. imagine what one would cost once it gets all star wars'd up. that is not going to encourage average people to buy a sailboat and learn the art of sailing. i think the boat manufactures spend way too much time focusing on the race crowd and the high dollar cruisers.

the premise towards robo-sailboats is that learning to sailo is too daunting. what is more daunting? a ton of computer crap to learn to use or one rope and a tiller? if you want to make sailing less daunting, wouldn't simpler be better?

adverise in non-sailing enthusiast media. there are some awesome sailing videos on youtube; videos that really make sailing look exciting and fun, not like a bunch of old dudes with money sitting in slow boats. manufactures and sailing schools and clubs need to use footage like that, or footage showing families out enjoying a fn day of sailing, in ads in the mass media. if you only advetise sailing and sailboats in sailing publications, how do you suppose you are going to get the word out to people who don't sail. those people don't buy sailing publications.

go to youtube. look up 'europe sailing in heavy wind', then tell me if that isn't the perfect ad for sailing. if you had a tv ad, using that video, you'd make sailing look more exciting than sex. well, maybe not that exciting, but you know what i mean. that would draw all those skateboarders and snow boarders and others that are into extreme sports and looking for some excitement.
I'll admit to not being entirely convinced myself that robo-sailboats are the way to go but I believe one could build a better boat than a Laser with some added electronics for less than what a new Laser costs. To me a Laser is outrageously expensive for what it is. Part of the problem is racing and the fact that manufacturers pay royalties for these old designs.

I like the one design concept when it comes to racing but it seems to have had some unintended consequences. New designs have a hard time gaining any traction.

Further I agree with you that a bad and complex computer interface is worse than none.

And I really agree with you that marketing to the choir is not very effective at growing the sailing community. More could be done to make sailing look appealing and attainable to those who don't sail. And that might go back to the boats themselves.

I know a lot of us have a soft spot for Optis, but do kids look at an Opti and try to convince their parents to get one? I would bet that the vast majority of the kids sailing an Opti already have parents who sail.
 
#795 · (Edited)
Another idea I just thought of for how to improve small boats:

Brakes ;)

Seriously.

Maybe even small electric thrusters for cheating. Docking area a little crowded? Not comfortable backing a boat using just the wind? Get away from the crowd, then hoist the sail just like the big boats do. The thrusters could be set to automatically hold the boat into the wind.

I swear one of the most difficult things we have to learn in the club is how to leave from and return to the often crowded dock without ramming the dock or hitting another boat. Same is true of maneuvering through the mooring field. It creates a lot of stress in the new sailors and even some of the experienced ones depending on conditions.

Heresy. I know. I can only imagine the crap I would have to take from my fellow sailers as I motored my augmented MC Scow back to the dock. Probably better than the screaming that would ensue if someone's pristine gelcoat were to get scuffed up in a collision.

I suppose the low tech version would be a paddle, but lots of people not so good at that either.
 
#797 ·
lol. yeah. i had to luff up, in my dinghy, this summer so i could show an older couple, who obviously had no idea, hw to row. such a seemingly simple thing. people are really out of touch.
 
#799 · (Edited)
I guess you can look at it two ways. Adding technology would lessen and cheapen the experience. It would contribute to our already over dependence on gadgets. Shoot, - using a sextant is for pussies. What happens when that sensitive instrument gets busted or lost? Navigating across oceans using dead reckoning, now that's how real men and the truly skilled sailors did it. ;)

Or you can look at another way. A sailboat in and of itself is a technological creation. And one that has been improved and undergone radical changes over the centuries. Humanity has survived and thrived not just through brute force, but through invention.

But it's like we somehow have adopted this Amish attitude towards sailing. Innovation in the boats that most of use has all but stopped. And maybe that's just because we associate modern with powered. And we don't want powered so sailing remains stuck in time.

And I've probably have said this before, but a big part of me is OK with that. I do not think all technology is good. I happen to think the gas powered leaf blower is a tool of Satan. And what's wrong with a regular old screw driver or socket set? Does everything need a battery?

Yet I think the downside of keeping sailing stuck in time is exactly what we're seeing. The rest of the world is moving on to different things. I think for most people a sailboat is a nice piece of nostalgia, - like a Norman Rockwell painting. It's pretty to look at, and we may miss what it represents, but given the choice, few people really want to go back to living that way.
 
#801 ·
I am proud of learning to read the direction and speed of the wind by looking at the water surface. I never would have learned this if the boat did it for me.

I think many people are drawn to sailing in part because it's difficult: modern life is too easy physically and mentally, and the lack of challenge harms us. We require constant mental and physical challenge to grow, and deteriorate without it.

Technical advancements that make a sailboat sail better for a skilled sailor are worthwhile, but anything that reduces the need for knowledge and seamanship is a detriment, and makes sailing less fun and less worthwhile.
 
#803 ·
I am proud of learning to read the direction and speed of the wind by looking at the water surface. I never would have learned this if the boat did it for me.

I think many people are drawn to sailing in part because it's difficult: modern life is too easy physically and mentally, and the lack of challenge harms us. We require constant mental and physical challenge to grow, and deteriorate without it.

Technical advancements that make a sailboat sail better for a skilled sailor are worthwhile, but anything that reduces the need for knowledge and seamanship is a detriment, and makes sailing less fun and less worthwhile.
exactly so
 
#802 ·
one thing i think you aren't considering: technology already advanced, as far as boats are concerned, at it left ailing behind, in favor of motors. it chose machines over art. sailing was, once, a fundamental element in human survival and advancement. it expanded our place in the world. it defended out shores. it fed us and supplied us with goods. it was a basic mode of transportation.

except for skipjacks and fishing boats in third world countries, sailing is no longer a necessary technology. it was ousted by machines. now, it's a sport and a past time. an art and pleasure from the past. it has no modern relevance except for that. until our civilization crumbles, it will be that way.

so, if you are worried about sailing not moving into the future, you are worried about something that happened in the 1800s. sailing didn't move into the future. it became obsolete. we just reach into the past to enjoy the art that helped make man great.
 
#805 ·
one thing i think you aren't considering: technology already advanced, as far as boats are concerned, at it left ailing behind, in favor of motors. it chose machines over art. sailing was, once, a fundamental element in human survival and advancement. it expanded our place in the world. it defended out shores. it fed us and supplied us with goods. it was a basic mode of transportation.

except for skipjacks and fishing boats in third world countries, sailing is no longer a necessary technology. it was ousted by machines. now, it's a sport and a past time. an art and pleasure from the past. it has no modern relevance except for that. until our civilization crumbles, it will be that way.

so, if you are worried about sailing not moving into the future, you are worried about something that happened in the 1800s. sailing didn't move into the future. it became obsolete. we just reach into the past to enjoy the art that helped make man great.
Lots of innovation in sailing took place well after the 1800s. Some important innovations, like fiberglass hulls, are what made sailing accessible to those outside of the very privileged. That didn't happen until the later 50's/early 60's.
 
#809 ·
i am aware of the difference between apparent wind and true wind. reading apparent wind guides your sail trim. reading the true wind, and all those signs of it, can warn you of what is coming. both equally important.
 
#811 ·
I figured you did and one can muddle through without having a full understanding of the difference. I muddled for a long time but I definitely noticed the phenomenon and it confused me at times. Waves telling me one thing, sail telling me another, and the boat not letting me do what I thought the waves were saying I could.
 
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