SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Newbe with no experience buys big boat

63K views 343 replies 85 participants last post by  glenndamato 
#1 ·
I just finished this book.
Breaking Seas: An overweight, middle-aged computer nerd buys his first boat, quits his job, and sails off to adventure: Glenn Damato: 9780985816209: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VUNGcnmUL.@@AMEPARAM@@51VUNGcnmUL

What a fun read. Every couple of months someone asks if they can buy a boat with no experience and do some serious cruising. Not something I would do but everyone is different.

This guy did it and really barred his soul about what worked and what didn't work. I'm going to try to get him to join this forum so you animals can tear him up as is your custom.:)

For a short fat guy he is tough as nails and I'm sure can take it.
He found himself on a lee shore with a busted impeller and a full keel boat that would not point.
He saved the boat, with a clever hack, how did he do it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RunningRabbit
#188 · (Edited)
Why'd you have to be such a nice guy on here? Now I'm going to have to read your book. (And I have an e-reader here that I got in a trade-show raffle. Was going to sell it on eBay...)

Regards,
Brad
 
#189 ·
Nice read, Glenn! Your extreme honesty is greatly appreciated and the line about the giant baby in the cockpit had me laughing. We have a lot in common, although I am definitely a weaker man and would have busted out a bottle of tequila and sadly took Meagan for a ride…

Anyway, I have a question to ask you, or anyone else on here with knowledge, about why your survey didn't catch the leaky problems with the boat. I would have assumed that for the money you paid for the boat that it would be in better shape than it was, or at a minimum your survey should have showed that it wasn't in decent shape. What I am getting at is, shouldn't a saturated deck or weak hull/deck joint be found in a survey?
 
#190 ·
Anyway, I have a question to ask you, or anyone else on here with knowledge, about why your survey didn't catch the leaky problems with the boat. I would have assumed that for the money you paid for the boat that it would be in better shape than it was, or at a minimum your survey should have showed that it wasn't in decent shape. What I am getting at is, shouldn't a saturated deck or weak hull/deck joint be found in a survey?
Surveys aren't all that great. My boat came with 2 old ones when I bought her and I hired the most recommended surveyor in Seattle to do a 3rd. Hold the three up to the light and practically nothing matches. :rolleyes:

I'd like to say that if you know nothing about boats then they can be really helpful, but based on some of the things they missed on my boat, or just got wrong, or the things that the REALLY missed on my wooden boat, it's not true that they'll save the newbie from trouble.

If you are not already very wise in the way of boats, then get as many experienced opinions as you can. Get a survey, have experienced friends look at it, and also check online for your make and model of boat and find their flaws.

With the advent of the internet, unless it's a brand new boat, odds are that many others before you have already found and dealt with your prospective boat's flaws. I bet you could figure out exactly which years Catalina got their Catalina 30 right and which years to stay away from just by using google.

MedSailor

PS My anti-surveyor sentiment comes at a time when my insurance company wants me to haul out and have a surveyor go over my boat. I already know exactly what's wrong with the boat and what's right with it. I'm not happy about paying a $urveyor to get it all wrong and write it up for the insurance company...:mad:
 
#192 ·
Hi Glenn--

I also bought your book (Kindle version) based on what I read here and just finished it-- was a fun read! It's really cool to be able to have the author respond to people on this thread. I was curious too about the survey... it sounded like perhaps you thought it wasn't such a good thing that the surveyor and your broker hit it off so well... do you think the surveyor maybe didn't do his job or do you think this is really something that any surveyor would have missed?
 
#196 ·
Perhaps because there never was a destination. Even the Ha-ha and Cabo were driven by others, and not Glenn's desire to arrive there.

It's a well-written book about a clueless neophyte who learned a few things along the way. But I'm not convinced that now, nearly 10 years later, he was left with fully accurate conclusions about his ordeal.

One Ha-ha does not an expert make. Yet now he seems entrenched in conclusions about his boat and sailing that were formed, and cast in the stone of his personal dogma, when he was still a beginner at the conclusion of his voyage. Dude has a ton to learn.

Kudos for the candor, kudos for the writing style and voice. But the oft-repeated boilerplate lines here in response to earnest questions are off-putting. I think he has yet to learn how he and his boat let him down. For now, his heels seem dug in and he's sticking with some questionable stories. Whatever.

I don't regret the day I spent reading the book. But I do regret coming here and reading lines from his book being regurgitated or paraphrased in response to questions from his readers. We read the book! Yet it's obvious many answers lie outside it's 4 corners.
 
#197 ·
Well JB I suspect Glen has a pretty good idea of where his skills and experience are a little thin.
Would you mind some specifics about what conclusions he came to that you disagree with?
 
#199 ·
Jbaffoh: I wouldn't claim to be an expert by any measure. That's why I', wavering over buying another boat within the next year or two. It's not an obligation to take likely. And unless the sailor is so rich they can afford a new, pristine yacht, or hire people to upkeep and upgrade and older yacht, it will eat up vast amounts of time and energy.

I'm not sure what you mean by "boilerplate responses." Please understand that just like everyone else I have time constraints and I can't write elaborate and detailed responses to each person.

I could have make the book more detailed but it was already quite long for a memoir about a not-famous person who did not participate in history. For example, my three year circumnavigation was completely planned out, including stops and approximate dates. I planned to winter over and haul-out in Australia and South Africa. I even spoke to someone in Sydney about the possibility of temp employment as an IT consultant.

I probably emphasized interpersonal conflicts in the book, but I did that to make it more readable and be able to get people to the non-interpersonal conflict parts. I disagree that the story was "driven by others." It was my decision to return to San Diego, and it was a sound decision. Trying to single-hand across the South Pacific in a wet boat, after knowing I was already lonely and information-starved in Cabo, and understanding how poorly suited I was for third-world living, I would make the same decision again today.

If and when I do cruise again, it will be seasonal travel between California, Hawaii, and Puget/Vancouver.

Hope that helps clarify -

Best regards,

Glenn
 
#200 ·
David: The survey did not pick up or test for leaks, and I probably would have said "I don't care, because I'm going to replace all the hatches and ports anyhow."

I noticed that even small amounts of rain (or even a heavy dew!) would immediately result in significant quantities of water entering below - and I am 100-percent sure it was not from condensation. I may be "all wet," but my rather thin theory was that the plastic deck core got saturated so any incoming leaks would push out moisture into the cabin, through the many hundreds of staples that punctured the inner cabin top glass.

Best,

Glenn
 
#206 ·
Sorry about worrying this leaky boat issue like a dog with a bone but since is ended up being one of two significant issues that ended the trip and was not apparent from the beginning I'm trying to extract as much useful information out of your experience as possible.
I'm sure none of us want to end up with a leaky boat and you surely don't want to either.

I'm very surprised that some of our more experienced boat repair people haven't commented on your use of 5200.

I have a theory that perhaps 5200 actually caused the boat to leak even more that it did before you "fixed" it.
5200 is an amazingly strong adhesive. If there are two parts sealed with 5200 on a deck and for any reason, even expansion and contraction due to two different materials, something has to give. The adhesive will not give, it is too strong, so another crack forms creating a worse leak than before.

The bedding compound that should be used is butal tape which never gets hard and never leaks but allows significant movement.

If you 5200 two pieces of fiberglass together then force them apart I believe that the 5200 will not fail first. The gelcoat or fiberglass itself will separate first.

Can any experienced boat repair people confirm this theory?
Mainesail, are you there?

Glenn if you contributed to causing leaks by improper use of space age adhesive I'm sure you would want to know about it.

Second

During your refit you said you replaced all the ports.
Did you remove everything from the deck, hand, rails, winches, tracks, everything and rebed them?

The reason I'm worrying this diagnosis is that re-bedding everything is something that is well known has to be done every 10 to 20 years or leaks will develop.

The hull-deck joint on the other hand will last as long as the boat if it was done right from the beginning as far as I know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ranthra
#201 ·
Just finished this on my kindle.

The story is light and easy. I particularly liked the descriptions of sail gear, hardware and handling from Glenn's novice perspective, completely free from any sort of notions of superiority. He was able to break down some of this technical information and tell it like it is in simple terms.

The underlying premise of the story felt a little awkward and canned to me. Basically, the sailing adventure came about because Glenn is too unattractive to ever find a wife and have children (goal #1 in life), so he settles for buying a boat and going sailing (back up goal). He really belabors these points with a lot of detail about failed dating attempts, his unattractiveness, and his refusal to compromise his standards. To me, it seems like this was added to try and make the book more of a plot-driven story, but I don't think it was necessary.

Lastly, one of my big pet peeves with kindle edition books are the typos, and this edition had many. It also showed dashes (--) as hyphens (-) which made for some awkward sentences, especially since Glen uses a lot of dashes in his writing.

All in all, well worth the 3.99 on my Kindle and I do commend Glenn for writing a book that people are reading, which is extremely difficult in today's age of self publishing.
 
#203 ·
Thanks for your comments, caberg. You're right - I need to redo the Kindle formatting. The hard copy from CreateSpace is much better. I need to base the new Kindle edition on the pdf doc used by CreateSpace. No easy way to do that - the technology is quite new.

To clarify, it wasn't that I was "too ugly to get a mate," it was that I was "too short and fat to get a mate I would find appealing." Big difference! I don't think I'm ugly at all - but I have found (big surprise) pretty girls don't like fat guys the same height they are, at least if they're not millionaires.

I did feel this was vital to the story. First, if not for the repeated rejections I experienced in 2000 and 2001 (the drive-by rejection being an example) I would not have bought the boat. Second, I thought there was a nice degree of irony how my voyaging did not allow me to escape rejection, but instead sort of amplified it and even turned it around. To me, rejection and disappointment were intertwined with the core story of outfitting the vessel and actually making the voyage. I tried to be careful not to overdo the non-sailing part, but there will be differences of opinion as to how much was appropriate.

Best regards,

Glenn
 
#205 ·
Yeah. I spent my entire 30's trying to make myself into what society would consider "proper husband material" with a lot of failed dates and relationships to show for it. Three years back a couple weeks after kayaking down to Cayo Costa(with an ex girlfriend who had broken up with me months prior) I was on this date with a girl I had hit it off with on Match or OkCupid or some other site. The restaurant was too loud, she looked a little bored, and my mind kept wandering back to my Cayo trip and seeing this beautiful sailboat in the harbor. Over the last couple weeks I'd wondered what it'd be like living on that sailboat. It'd popped up in my head a lot and when this cute late 20-something thing kept talking on about this or that all I could think of was "I really don't want to be here".

It was this weird, strange almost depressing feeling that had this underlying "Now what the hell do I do with myself" undercurrent.

So I go home, surf Yachtworld, get a Match email from the girl saying the usual "You're not what I'm looking for, good luck.", barely read it, and that weekend I'm taking sailing lessons. One month later I threw most everything I owned away and moved into a hotel. A month after that I'm an owner of a 32ft sailboat and prepping her for moving aboard.

So Glenn's method of "starting out" sort of resonated with me. It's one of those life points where you hit this stark realization that "**** isn't going to work out like you planned", so you throw away a lot of who've you tried to be all those years and set off in a completely new direction.
 
#207 ·
Great post, LauderBoy. I hear you. Me, I'm a shallow SOB. It's not that I'm ugly, it's that I don't want anyone remotely like me in terms of body type. "Not want" is not just a preference, like "I don't want strawberry ice crea, I'd rather have chocolate," it means I'm not attracted to them sexually, at all. To me, body size and shape are where sex appeal resides. And no one is going to change my mind by denouncing me as superficial. I'd much rather be called every name in the book than be legally trapped in something I really didn't want to begin with.

Men are forbidden to express these ideas. I'm glad to see the book spark these sorts of discussions!

Best,

Glenn
 
#208 ·
davidpm: No, I didn't rebed all deck hardware, but the list of deck hardware I did not rebed is short: three of the four teak handrails, the tracks, and hardware associated with the staysail. Keep in mind I haven't seen this boat in almost nine years, so I am remembering as best as I can but it may be imperfect.

The VOLUME of water getting below was what got me. It was not from the "big"holes: the two deck hatches and the ten new bronze ports. I forward deck hatch did not leak after it was properly adjusted. There were no clear, obvious entry points - the water was just "there," mainly appearing in lockers and the bilge, and the hull-deck joint is the only place I could think of, mainly because you can't directly see it at all in the DE38.

Tied up to the dock, during California's "dry" season (no significant rainfall), a heavy dew or a 15-min drizzle would NOT result in any wetness below. However, once the boat was "wet for the season" (after the first heavy rains in December), at that point even a heavy dew or a 15-min drizzle WOULD result in significant new wetness below: cushions, lockers, etc. This is why I came up with the "saturated foam core" theory.
 
#210 ·
davidpm:
The VOLUME of water getting below was what got me. It was not from the "big"holes: the two deck hatches and the ten new bronze ports. I forward deck hatch did not leak after it was properly adjusted. There were no clear, obvious entry points - the water was just "there," mainly appearing in lockers and the bilge, and the hull-deck joint is the only place I could think of, mainly because you can't directly see it at all in the DE38.
Leaks can be maddening, I've been there.
As far a volume goes it is amazing how much water can come in a small hole especially if it is under pressure.
I was in the gulf stream with a race boat with a retractable sprit. The minimal space between the sprit and hole it slid in was enough to make 7 of us have to bail with buckets.

The fact that the water was in lockers and you couldn't see anything leaking on the deck sure does sound like HD joint.
Bummer because there is no clear way to be sure that is not a problem on another boat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: glenndamato
#214 ·
What I learned is that my next boat is going to be of a far more modern design, and 10-15 years old at the most. The modern "tupperware" designs (Hunter, Beneteau, Catalina, etc) minimize hull penetrations and potential leak points and they probably figured out how to make a better H-D join than they did in the 1970's and 80's. I'm going to stay away from "classic" old boats, heavy displacements, full keels, and most importantly: do my own survey (in addition to hiring a professional) and focus on looking for telltale signs of interior leakage.
 
#216 ·
watch out for some of those newer boats. Most of the ones Ive been in were sinking and thus why I was there.... at 85 dollars an hour.

Laid up thin. too light for bad weather prone to the 'catalina smile' lots of thin teak wood veneered onto marine press wood that bubbles and flakes off when they inevitably encounter water damage

Newports are great examples of an overpriced poorly produced and cheaply made vessel that is real prone to sinking. Last one I worked on was due to the failure of the bilge switch... on the panel not the float switch. The teak wood floor was totaled. motor had to be pickled and removed.

Not to mention the mainsail block that failed in its few short years of time in California of all places.

Or a lot of these newer mega yachts. I was working on a 45 footer that when I would drop into the engine bay the hull would flex I could feel the stringers vibrate if I stepped heavy. That one had less than 150 hours on it less than 2 years old and the water jacket had failed and sucked salt into the turbo, totaled the turbo and went on the destroy the valves. Thousands out of pocket just so they could get it delivered to the people who were buying it from them.

starting to notice a trend here? You could say the same about old boat. Except for the fact that some of those same things are starting to be an issue.... yeah after 30-40 years not 2-10
 
#217 ·
Glenn,

Thanks you for the book. I just finished the Kindle version and found it thought provoking.

As a six year Navy vet and a basic sailing newbie I dove into the book with the thought of it being a good primer and in a way it was.

Here are a few lessons:

It has encouraged me to take my little learner boat outside as soon as I can, I need to see how it will handle swells before I commit to any multi week voyages.

Gadgets are over rated, I need to spend less time concerned with getting a nifty chart plotter and more time under sail practicing technique and knowing my rig.

Full keels suck as performers, I had a thought about it but now I know.

Watch the weather and plan the windows and alternates paths.

Airheads suck, just a glorified wag bag. Turning a valve and throwing a switch is much better than toting piss and poo, even if it smells good.

Thanks for the book, sorry the boat leaked. Sometimes you just get a dud. My suggestion is that next time you live on the beast at least a year on weekends and vacations before leaving the states. ;D
 
#218 ·
Thanks Gary! Most of my gadgets actually worked pretty well: my Garmin chart plotter, W-H hydraulic autopilot, refrigeration system, single-sideband radio, and the radar all performed perfectly. This was probably because all were new, carefully installed, and not subjected to several years at sea!

I recommend the AirHead, with two caveats: no more than two people, and when the boat is on a tack that lowers the internal "urine separation lip" inside the unit, female crew must agree to either urinate directly into a bucket (squat technique) or use a special "funnel" device that allows them to squat and then channel the fluid into the AirHead's exterior urine tank. The urine tank is not that hard to empty: most yachties could just empty it down the sink (and hence overboard) while at sea, splash some faucet seawater to remove the odor.

All this sounds complicated but I believe the sum total is less complicated and troublesome than any traditional system with hoses, valves, one or two pumps, vent, etc. Remember, you never have to unclog a hose or a pump or replace a pump flapper.

I understand that some luxury charter cats are switching over to composting heads. They have to make sure they install one for every two people aboard.

We proved the old adage "sailing and schedules do not mix." I had already heard that many times in my studies, but we "had to" leave Alameda no later than Oct 17 so Joyce could do the Ha-Ha. I knew for a fact there was at least one other boat (much nicer than mine) that would take her on board immediately if I announced we would not Ha-Ha (I met the owners, a nice elderly couple). If Joyce left, I'd lose Richard and likely Megan too, or with Megan I'd have a crew of two and I did not like that idea for a first voyage.

I remember the phrase "sailing and schedules do not mix" going round and round in my head as we sailed under the Gate into the strengthening wind and whitecaps. In a way I was glad because this would "test" the boat and uncover flaws I should know about ASAP (did it ever!).

The reason I chose a full-keel heavy displacement boat was I read from several reliable sources that they can be made to safely lie ahull in almost any kind of sea, while a fin-keel moderate displacement "racer-cruiser" would only lie ahull in a moderate sea, a heavy sea being likely to capsize or pitch-pole the boat sooner or later. I figured I would need to lie ahull a couple of times when I rounded the southern Cape single-handed in a couple of years, roaring 40's and all, so that's why I got a heavy boat!

Best regards,

Glenn
 
#219 ·
Lucky for me I have no plans to do the roaring 40s.

I was looking at a Tartan 30 as my first boat but put it off for something cheaper (much). I am leaning towards a Tartan 34 or 37 with a center board to be our next boat. Shallow draft, more flexibility in ports of call.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top