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post #3824 of Old 02-11-2013
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Talking Re: Interesting Sailboats

Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Very curious system. I never had seen anything similar.
It looks quite complicated indeed. Thanks a lot for posting the snapshots Paulo, they make it much easier to describe the setup .

In fact it’s a very efficient arrangement to be able to put a very high tension on the inner forestay.
Not only to get a flat staysail, but this is also the only way to bend the mast somewhat further and flatten the mainsail. Because there is no backstay (fathead mainsail) and no runners (it’s a cruiser ), the mast is only pre- bent by the very aft swept spreaders and a lot of tension on the caps and shrouds. Extra bend of the very rigid (carbon) mast in heavy weather must therefore be obtained by (quite huge) tension on the inner forestay .
With a traditional rig a comparable flattening effect is obtained by taking in the backstay.

Let me describe the setup starting from the cockpit. Once rigged, the tension is applied from the cockpit with one of the coachroof winches, multiplied by the tackle in the sail/anchor locker/forward crash box.

I see the clutch, the one with a blue line that goes to a little hole and then to the tackle (inside the anchor locker). But I see also a white line coming out of the hole. What it is for?
So this blue line runs from the piano, all the way forward through the clutch on the foredeck.
This clutch can be operated from the cockpit with an thin control line. This is meant to avoid permanent strain on the line (and the deck) all the way back to the cockpit, the same way racers fit masthead hooks to take halyard strain off the mast. (The green line and its clutch do the same for the deployment of the bowsprit, also requiring quite a lot of tension.)

The blue line then disappears into the sail/anchor locker/forward crash box, where it runs through a 3:1 tackle. Winch + tackle give plenty of power, which is transferred to the white line exiting the locker again and ending on the black “handle” (on later Pogo’s it’s a thick kind of manrope knot).

I see also a plastic handle and a loop on the stay. I thought that it was a direct system connection, from the blue line to the stay, but then what is that blue loop on the stay and the handle what role plays in the system?

The thin, blue, knotted loop on the video is a fake (I presume because the inner forestay was then not yet rigged on the only just finished hull #1). Imagine instead the looped end of the thick textile forestay, that fits into the “handle” or manrope knot in the same way you designed these nice textile “clips”.

Yes, no doubt a clip is the best system but I asked if they were made of metal because Comar sailmaker that is specialized in high tech sails and solutions was very adamant about not using metal clips on a textile stay. I had saw some textile clips but at very high prices (about 50 euros each) so I am in the process of making them for my sail. I have alredy the wood buttons that come from China and I am in the phase of buyng 6mm dyneema rope to do the lops. Something like this:

Can you talk with the guys from Pogo and their sailmaker to confirm what Comar sailmaker had said to me regarding metal clips to be inappropriate for a textile stay?
I have no idea why textile clips would work better on a textile forestay, I’d rather expect more friction, wear and tear. But I’ll certainly check this with our sailmaker Incidences. Anyway: nice design (and nice drawings).

Regarding your favorite nightmare I have good news to you. Have a look:

You can pull the reefing line from the cockpit with that system.
Thanks for the tip, Paulo! But there is a limit to the number of lines that can be brought back to even the largest cockpit, so the halyard of our staysail is trimmed from the mast and we have to go to the foredeck to reef it anyway…

Yes that is the same problem in what regards rigging. Like in your boat my removable stay is pretty forward and it would make difficult tacking.

I plan to have it permanently mounted if I went out already with strong winds and in that case that is the sail I am going to hoist. If strong winds are a possibility I plan to have the sail already on deck, forward, attached to the life lines on a long bag similar to the one you have. Only if strong winds appear I will go forward, mount the stay and clip the sail in it. I guess it would gave some work but with the boat sailing with a reefed main that should not be very hard.

I guess that Jib without the reef would be good for 30/35 K wind. In fact the boat works very well with only that sail and just a bit of main or no main at all. I guess that with the reefed staysail as only sail the boat would be good for 40/45 winds. More than that I would have to put the storm sail. That should not come as a surprise and in that case I will have the Jib mounted in the stay and on the lifelines inside the long bag, ready to clip, the storm sail.

Even so it would be more difficult than cliping the jib because I would have to put the Jib on the forward sail locker and only then I would be able to clip the storm sail. I don't want to think what would be like if I had not a sail locker just in the right place. It would be very difficult to bring that big sail (the jib) to the boat interior, at least alone.
I fully agree, this is exactly the way we do it when strong winds are expected. You certainly don’t want to carry a heavy staysail across the foredeck when things become really bad.
And the way we would do it if we had a storm sail. We don’t, because I think the stability of the boat should be sufficient to cope with 50+ winds with a reefed staysail. Another of my favorite nightmares .

I guess this year I am going to try that system a lot since I will be sailing the Cyclades in July and August and that means a lot of days with wind over B7.
The Cyclades… absolutely wonderful every time we went cruising there.
With a reliable engine and a large bimini for the prevailing windless summer conditions and to enjoy the beautiful scenery, anchorages, …
And also with very good sailing and anchoring equipment for the Meltemi and the violent thermal winds that also occur, sometimes without warning. But of course you know all that much better than I do, so enjoy it !

Best regards,


Last edited by EricKLYC; 02-11-2013 at 06:07 PM.
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