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Old 02-16-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Links are broken. Do you publish this here on Sailnet? Someone censored them from here? That would be big time wrong to do that IMHO.
No they were "hot linked" meaning referenced in my posts both here and on Sailboatowners.com but they were still hosted on a Bounty web site.

The images have been DELETED. Beyond that they have also been removed from deep scan internet archive searches which is very abnormal. My neighbor is a forensic computer consultant. Yesterday I emailed him to see if he could find them. His response was "this is weird I can always find something in cached archive searches but these addresses are simply gone."...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
They said that there was huge destruction of the newer work they had done in warly 2000 that I guess you saw because of the lack of ventilation and fresh water intrusions and thats why it didnt last long,
This would not surpise me. The frame was so rotted that it must have allowed enough movement/flex of planking etc. and allowed water in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
I agree more and more with you accessment about her being let out to sail and not just in a hurricane but at all. I guess if she had to be moved to Flordida it would have been only in optimal conditions and with and escort of some kind. The leaking alone would mean that. None of us would risk taking our boats out for even a day sail in a protected bay if the only way we knew wed saty afloat is if out pumps worked.
I have been saying this since the day I learned the boat sank in October and realized it was the boat I had seen on the rails at BHS so many times.

No one wanted to listen or cared back then and the only focus was on the captain. He still made a bad decision and still should have KNOWN the condition of this "pig in a prom dress" but still chose to set sail. Still, the boat should have been deemed a dockside attraction only IMHO....

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
She should have stayed a dockside attraction somewhere and not only would her legacy remained intact, peoples lives wouldnt have been lost.
Until the sinking that is what I had assumed she was. I never really paid much attention to the HMS Bounty other than knowing she was a Hollywood set in a Brando movie. If I had known she actually sailed with novice crew and ventured purposely into hurricanes I would have taken HUNDREDS of photos myself as it would have made a good thread........

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
I cant help but think why these people who sailed aboard her thought the amount of water and the deteriorated wood as well as the cobbled solutions were good enough.
IMHO because they were novices and die hard TS hobbyists so focused on their passion that they cared less about the safety reality than someone who is a professional.. I do recall reading that many folks who actually knew anything about wood ships bailed quickly on this venture, including some ships engineers. The final engineer was not, in any sense of the word, as related to boats...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
And then to go blue water with her. And then to sail in hurricane like conditions. She appeared doomed everytime she cast off her lines. That it was only a matter of time.
Quite frankly I am amazed she held up as long as she did and it is a really testament to BHS IMHO. She was literally held together by the "prom dress" and paint...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Another thing bothers me though about Boothbay Shipwright and I know its a very reputable yard. Since they were putting all this good repair on bad structure why did they not cover their own asses by stating that in writing.

IMHO likely because this is Maine where we still do things on a hand shake and a nod..


Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
In todays litigenous society where people know and are quick to cover their asses you would think that that was SOP.
In most places it is an I can assure you more yards in Maine will be covering their collective arses after this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
If they truly worried that the ship couldnt handle sailing conditions, and I beleive you assessment, why are they saying it could get to the next refit.
Sailed gently it likely could have made it to the next repairs. I don't think anyone at BHS expected him to sail her directly into one of the largest storms in the North Atlantic in 30+ years..

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Why arent they saying we will not certify any fix since it is being put on material as a base which will fail? Any reputable construction builder if he was rehabbing a building wouldnt put the skin on the building of the frame and I beams supporting the building were not sound. Why did they do that? It calls into questions Boothbays ethics?
Quite likely because this was the umpteenth time, over a 20 year period, this boat had been there and there was a "comfortable" relationship which was largely hand shake and verbal..

Jakomovicz and Walbridge were also "friends". I found Jakomovicz testimony to be some of the most offensive I have seen. Here is a guy with a claimed 40 years of experience who can only say under oath "Well because I have 40 years of experience and he only has 5"...How about citing some FACTS other than "I'm better than he is because I've been doing it longer"??? How about stating WHY the ship was safe? How about some details that show what Kosakowski said was not true? Surely Jakomovicz owns an awl? A camera? I mean the BHS has plenty of photos of projects on its site? At least Kozakowski came armed with photographic evidence. What did Jakomovicz present other than "I have 40 years experience he has 5".... LAME!!!!! Give us some SPECIFICS based on your 40 years experience......

I think teh conversation below was very, very telling and despite Jakomovitch arguing against Kozakowski I think it sealed the deal on "condition"..

Jakomovicz: “The key thing here is that it’s a 50 year old boat. You have to realize that that’s tired.”

Carroll: “Tired?”

Jakomovicz: “When you have a hog in the keel, that boat’s tired. When the backbone is tired and you take that boat in the seaway, that boat’s gonna work, and when it works, it’s gonna leak.” (“Work” refers to the movement of the timbers under strain.)

Carrol: “And you felt comfortable that Bounty was going to make the trip?”

Jakomovicz: “Oh, I had no idea it was going to go into a hurricane!”


There were sooooooo many mistakes in this debacle it is hard to pinpoint any one main contributing factor other than to say.....

THE BOAT NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE!
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