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  #1  
Old 08-05-2013
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Head hoses

I have a 1980 Allmand 31. On the off chance that another Allmand owner will come along, I thought I'd ask this here. If I don't get a reply, I'll update my findings when I'm finally aboard.

Anyway...I want to replace the hoses and rebuild the head on our Allmand. I don't think the previous owners have ever done this (still has the white, corrugated pipe), and I think I have the standard head configuration. Unfortunately, my boat is 2.5 hours away, so measuring isn't something I can do quickly or easily. I'd like to order the hoses so I can do the project in one big shot next time I'm down there (rather than paying West Marine's rates or those of my marina), but I don't know what length of hose or what size hose to get. Does anyone at least know the size (diameter) for the hoses?

Thanks!
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Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Head hoses

Not an Almand owner but I have replaced hoses/toilet in two boats now.

Discharge hose is probably 1 1/2", intake hose 3/4".

I've used this hose on both heads I've worked on. It is very easy to work with since it is so flexible.

To limit the "spillage" I use my vacuum can (for changing oil) to suck remainingn fluid from hoses before I remove them. As soon as I pull a hose end off I cover it with plastic and some tape to seal it. So far I haven't spilled anything when changing hoses.

Not the favorite boat project but certainly improves the ambiance if you're having odor issues.
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Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Head hoses

Like Sailak said, the most common hose sizes are 3/4" intake and 1-1/2" discharge. Some electric toilets use a 1" discharge as they have built in macerators.

Raritan makes a super flexible hose that is warrantied for 5 years against odor permeation. Trident also makes a five year hose that is less expensive but not as flexible.
The following is from the Raritan website.

NEW - Sani/Flex Odor Shield Hose

Tired of smelly, clogged hoses?

Highest Quality marine Sanitation Hose. Uses Butyl rubber construction which has the lowest odor permeation level not found in other rubber or PVC material hoses. Extremely flexible for easy installation with a low bend radius up to one time its diameter.

5 Year warranty against odor permeation.
http://www.raritaneng.com/images/saniflex.jpg
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Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Head hoses

Thanks for the replies!

I think I may order some of the discharge hose so I have it on hand; the prices I'm seeing online are much better than West Marine, so I can afford to have a little left over and it will still be cheaper than running to WM once I have everything apart.

My holding tank is under the forward settee (the little "wing" on the U-shaped dinette on the right-hand side) in this picture:



The head is on the other side of the bulkhead behind the settee:


The bulkhead/wall can't be more than about 3' long. If I assume the inlet side of the tank is on the inboard end of the settee (which I'm 90% sure it isn't), and I allow 1' for each "elbow" bend plus a foot for it to go from the bulkhead to the head itself, then I'm looking at a 6' piece.

For the line connecting to the pump-out port on deck, I need approximately the length of the bulkhead (3') plus the rise to the deck, plus whatever additional length is necessary based on any "sideways" run to the fitting. In my case, the deck fitting is about where the bulkhead is, so I don't need to allow too much for the sideways traversal. I don't know the exact difference in height between the floor of the cabin (where the tank sits) and the deck. If I assume it is 6' (that's about how much headroom there is) plus the 3' for the bulkhead that's 9' for that run. I'll probably round that up to 10'.

So, so far I'm at 16' of the 1.5" tube. I think my tank may have a 2nd outlet port that goes to the mascerator. I'll need to close that off (I'm going to remove the mascerator) unless there's a valve already built into the tank. If I'm wrong and there is a Y valve, then I may keep the Y but cap off one end of it (though that seems like it may be a point-source for failure, and installing the Y again later shouldn't be that difficult, though it will likely be messy).

Then I just need the raw water intake hose and the vent hose. By my "back of the envelope" math, the vent hose needs to be about as long as the discharge hose (i.e. 10'), but I don't know what size fitting is used on the tank so I may have to wait and buy that the day I do the rest of the work.

The intake hose is under the long settee (the back portion of the dinette) on the port side, but I forget exactly where. I think it's roughly centered, but to play it safe I'll assume that, to get to the head, I'll need about 6' of that tube.

Does the raw water tube need to be the same sanitation hose as the rest of the system, or can/shoud it be something else?
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Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Head hoses

Does the waste line go from the head up to a vented loop and back down to the holding tank? Not sure if you're considering that in your measurements. Its usually the case, to prevent siphoning the worst stuff on the boat, back into the boat.

As for the raw water line, I would use quality stuff there too, however, it must be rated to be below the water line. Its as important it can't burst and sink the boat as permeate. This line will have standing seawater for as long as you're away. The organisms in it will die and that first flush always smells like low tide. I suppose it could permeate as well.
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Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Head hoses

don't forget to think about adding a 2nd air vent for your holding tank.
While you are there ...
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Re: Head hoses

I'm not sure if the waste line goes up to a vented loop or not. I know there is an external vent, but I'm guessing that it is the vent for the holding tank.
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Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Head hoses

Did not see the non GFI outlet above the head. (goes back under rock)
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Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Head hoses

Rant On....



PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do yourselves a favor and STOP USING THE WHITE PVC SANITATION HOSE. Unless you want to throw your hard earned money straight out the window this stuff is PURE GARBAGE. It can odor permeate in as little as 12 months but almost always in less than 2 years.

DO NOT USE:

Trident #148
Trident #140
Shields #144
Shields #148
Clear PVC Anything

The above hoses are pure unadulterated JUNK and a wallet draining rip off. Please stop supporting the companies that make this crap by purchasing it. It is NOT a sanitation hose no matter what they tell you.. If you want your vessel to smell like a cess-pool go for it, otherwise use Trident #101 or Trident #102.

Do Use:
Trident #101 (black)
Trident #102 (white)

Then if you can't get #101 or #102:
Shields Poly X
Raritan Sani/Flex Hose (this may be the new "best" sanitation hose but we need more years of data to prove it)
Shields #101 (this is NOT the same quality hose as Trident #101/102 but far better than any of the white PVC junk)

Just spent all day last week in a boat with "new hose" which was 1.5 season old Shields #148. It is totally odor permeated. It was so bad I opened every port and hatch and still felt nauseous. The boat yard charged him 3k for a brand new holding tank and 100% new hoses, 16 months ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With our brand new 2005 Catalina 310 the crappy factory white PVC hose was permeating by the early summer of 2006 (less than 12 months) and we use Odorlos religiously.

We are on our 7th season with Trident #101 and ZERO, ZERO, ZERO boat odor....... If you want your boat to smell its best Trident #101 or #102 are the ONLY time-proven hoses that can do so.

Rant off.....

P.S. For the 5/8" vent hose Trident series 100 (wet-exhaust hose) in either wire reinforced or non-wire is a very similar construction to Trident #101 and will easily last 7-12 + years.. Any Trident wet exhaust hose will outperform ANY of the crappy white PVC "sanitation" hoses by about 3 - 5 times. Trident #101/102 however is even better.
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  #10  
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Re: Head hoses

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimgo View Post
I'm not sure if the waste line goes up to a vented loop or not. I know there is an external vent, but I'm guessing that it is the vent for the holding tank.
The external vent is most certainly the tank vent. The vented loop is a different animal. It's an anti-siphon device. Can you imagine a siphon starting that is backflowing into the head.
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