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Please help with this mystery!

8K views 33 replies 20 participants last post by  Dave_E 
#1 ·
Recently bought an 1983 Allmand 31... several times I dried out the bilge and almost immediately it began to fill up with water... there has NOT been any rain... where could the water be coming from... my worst fear is that the source of the water may be coming from within the hull... that the hull is saturated with water... could this be true?

What is your opinion???????????

Help!!
 
#3 ·
Where are you? Is the water salt? or are you on a lake..

Flash bulletin... you've got a leak!! (hopefully only in your water tank)
 
#5 ·
Is the boat floating or on blocks/trailer?

Sample the water and find out if its potable (from fresh water tank) "odoriferous" (from the sewage tank) or matches the water the boat typically floats in... or rain.
This is the beginning of figuring out the source.
I don't recommend tasting as part of the testing... Others might.

You can get some info with a cheap pool water test kit and comparing the sample from the bilge with the most easily sampled sources. Similar chlorine and acid content vs extremely different.
 
#9 ·
If your fresh water tank and pipes are good, they should hold water for years. But there's a problem in leaving them full if it freezes, because then the water turning to ice can burst pipes. (then it doesn't hold the water any more)

Assuming its not the potable water system leaking, and a year on the hard... that pretty much makes it rain seepage soaking insulation then slowly filtering to the bilge.
 
#10 ·
look at your fresh water gauge you might have a slow leak. Also depending on how frequently you check your boat... AND if it has a keel stepped mast... you will have water entering from the mast... not only the partners but via the halyard exits.
 
#11 ·
.... AND if it has a keel stepped mast... you will have water entering from the mast... not only the partners but via the halyard exits.
He initially said it hasn't been raining....
 
#13 ·
I had a slow leak at one of the fresh water connections. It would only leak if I left the pressurized water pump on. Once I figured that out, tracking it down was easy. (I have a keel stepped mast that will also leak in rainy season.)
 
#14 ·
....almost immediately it began to fill up with water........
Fill up? My lord that's the worst leak I've ever heard of on a boat you could still see. :)

In all seriousness, how much water are we talking about and how long till you find it again. My first guess is the fresh water system. Even if the tanks were emptied, the water lines may not have been properly. Second, the water could be accumulated somewhere and draining out. If your mast is keel stepped, it's conceivable that the bottom is full of water and seeping through the step, if there isn't a drain. Our boat like to accumulate small amounts of water in the corners of bilge compartments, or behind hoses lying on the hull.

Dry her up real good. If you can't tell where it's coming from, some powder in strategic places could help identify a trickle path that's hard to make out.
 
#15 ·
To me it sounds like you might just have a partially blocked limber hole some where. Some boats will have what are essentially separate bilge compartments that are seperated by such things as structural framing, tanks, bulkhead supports etc.

All of these areas should theoretically drain back to the deepest part of the bilge, but if you have some hair or filings blocking the limber hole, it could result in draining quickly, but not as quickly as you suck it out.

The solution would be to open up all of your bilge access points and look for water that's pooling, suck it out, and do a good clean of the bilge.

If this is your problem, it is a very minor problem, you need to fix it, but no skills or materials would be required.
 
#16 ·
If the boat is on the hard ....

First, from underneath the deck - look at the chainplates and where all the 'though-deck' items (stanchion bases, fuel and water fill ports, etc.) are located ... for leaks. For short term observation you can 'stick or tape' paper towels to these 'through decks', etc. and at a later time examine the paper towels for wetness/moisture and to help locate such leaks (for re-caulking).
A cracked deck can easily accumulate water in the core of the deck and then slowly release this water into your bilge - such water will typically drain from those through decks ..... and sometimes into bulkheads. If the water is 'brownish', this would suggest water draining from a rotten deck core. Ditto on port-light and 'window' frames.

Second, during this time of year there will be large ambient temperature swings - day to night and with passing 'weather fronts', etc. So, condensation of water on the inside of the hull and on the surfaces of any filled or partly filled fuel/water/holding tank is a possibility. Put your kitchen paper towels under where these tanks will drain their surface condensation, and ditto on the hull sides - especially near where these tanks are located.

Lastly, if the boat has been not used for a year or more, check all water hose connections for leaks ... as the 'plastics and polymers' used are subject to 'creep deformation' which can easily loosen these connections.

Chainplates and 'deck fittings' are the usual leakers in sailboat.

hope this helps. ;-)
 
#17 ·
Aside from water coming in through the mast step... conditions around windows/portlights are in poor condition and needs to be rebedded... I suspected water has gotten into the hull core and now slowly draining into the bilge... ****...

If that is the case... what do you recommend?,
 
This post has been deleted
#18 ·
Oh boy. If your hull core is rotten and waterlogged, it might be a pretty big job to repair. Patches of deck or cockpit sole coring can be managed pretty reasonably, but a hull core could be a bit of a problem.

I say investigate further and make sure that is the source of the water before doing anything else.

Edit: I was doing some googling to see what I could learn. According to a cruising world review I read, these boats had voted decks but solid fibreglass hulls.
thought of drilling some exploratory holes in the hull and keel to see if water drains out... what do you think...
 
#19 ·
Julian , If it were me I would not drill . In fact I'm in the you have a leak camp . A easy way to check your hull , rather than drill is to rap on the hull with a small hammer that has a plastic head . You will hear a solid sharp tap , if you hear dull mushy thunk then you have a problem . But I can assure you your hull is not saturated with water .
 
#23 ·
We had a friend who after a lovely sail on Long Island Sound was motoring happily up the Connecticut River to Essex in his beautiful ketch one day. His wife looked down into the cabin and said: "Honey, why is there all that water down there?" The floorboards were floating. Knowing that he must have sprung a leak (wooden boat) and thinking quickly, he swiftly spun the wheel and drove his boat up into one of the gently shoaling mudbanks that line both sides of the river. Ooof! He pumped the bilge dry and as it started to re-fill, set out to find the leak! He checked all the through-hulls, looked in every locker for a started butt or seam. Nada. Pump again and keep looking, even more feverishly. Nothing. By now he's high and dry on the mud, but the bilge is continuing to fill. Hmmm. Time for additional input: taste test. The water isn't salty. Pump some more, but not so much this time: leak has stopped. Water tank is empty, and a hose clamp is loose. Check yours.
 
#24 · (Edited)
My boat curiously accumulates more water when it is stored on the hard and buttoned up tight than it does when kept in a slip, regardless of rain or no rain. My hypothesis is condensation. A boat on the hard will got hotter inside than a boat floating in the water. The warmer the air, the more moisture it can hold in vapor state. Warm air will actually pull moisture out of surrounding cool air (this is a simplified explanation). The boat cools off at night, especially the deck. The deck can get cooler than the surrounding air due to radiation into the night sky. If the hull cools to below the dewpoint of the air, then condensation will form. The condensation will find it's way down to the bilge. The dewpoint is higher for more humid air

If I keep the air inside my boat from getting hot, then I get no water inside. I can do that by keeping her in water and encouraging indoor air exhausting and being replaced by outdoor air. For my boat, propping a hatch open, leaving the companionway open, and putting up a boom tent is enough to affect air change and prevent rain intrusion. On the hard, I do the same, but since the boat does not get the cooling effect of direct contact with liquid water, nor the more consistent breeze that exists away from buildings and tress, a bit of water acculmulates in the boat, usually.

BTW - My temperature descriptors - hot, warm, cool - are relative to amount of moisture in the air. So, even though, the air may not seem hot or cool to you, it still can be in a thermodynamic sense.
 
#25 ·
Is your hull solid fiberglass or cored (two fiberglass skins separated by a foam or balsa core). If it is cored, maybe water has saturated to core and is now leaking out of every hole it can find. I hope that is not the case because there is not an easy way to fix that.
 
#26 ·
Do not think Allmands were built with cored hulls. They are no C&C's. Same LOA and a ton more displacement than my boat (Dolphin 31).

Also I don't think water would seep out of saturated core fast enough for you to see it. The core would hold the water.

I think you have a leaking tank somewhere, or a blocked limber hole as mentioned.
 
#27 ·
Yes, I think the OP needs to clarify 'filling right back up again' - are we talking ounces, pints, gallons? over what time frame? How big/deep is the bilge where this water is ending up? Is the water truly fresh (as from a tank) or somewhat contaminated (as draining some distance through old dust, F/G, dirt under liners and in pockets here and there)?
 
#29 ·
another clue... i went to screw in my bilge pump which rest on top of the keel... when the screw went into the top of the keel... water poured through the screw hole... there must be water in the keel....

tempted to drill a hole into the keel to see what happens... what do you think??
 
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