Hard to Start - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Engines > Gas > Atomic 4
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree2Likes
  • 1 Post By travlineasy
  • 1 Post By tommays
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 06-18-2013
Lubrdink's Avatar
S/V Glenn E
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Jefferson County, KS
Posts: 77
Thanks: 20
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Lubrdink is on a distinguished road
Hard to Start

Hey gang-
Hope your season is going well. I have a question for those with more A4 experience. I have a 43 YO A4 that had the original ignition (points, condenser) and last Monday it wouldn't start. No spark at plugs but some at coil. Anyway, I figured it was time for the electronic ignition kit so purchased same from Indigo and got it going last Saturday.
However, it's still hard to start after sitting for awhile (or days). If I crank on it for a few minutes choked and full throttle, it finally starts and runs fine. If I turn it off and try again it starts right back up. But sit awhile and takes some more cranking (like after sailing for an hour or so).
I pulled the line from the pump to the carb and it's pumping fuel so suspect it's not the pump (but not sure what the flow is to be). I would pull the air breather off but the bolts are stuck and will probably have to be worked at. So, you think it's carb, air cleaner, or pump? Or something else. I'm assuming since it runs fine, it's probably taking awhile to get fuel to the cylinders. But I defer to the experts for advice.
As always, appreciate any words from fellow A4 auxiliary powered sailors-
Kind regards.
__________________
"Sailing with a hero"
Honoring S/Sgt Glenn English, Jr, Congressional Medal of Honor for heroism that cost his life in Viet Nam, 9/7/70.
Newport 27 built 1970-Hull # N270088
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 06-18-2013
ScottyG24's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 91
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 3
ScottyG24 is on a distinguished road
Hard to Start

the first step is to determine if the issue is fuel or ignition so your not chasing your tail in the diagnosis:while its not starting make sure you have good spark(at the spark plug end of yr ignition wires) if you dont with your new electronic ignition double check your install(that the hall effect switch is set properly on the distributor cam assuming thats the set up)and that you have a full continous 12v at the coil and that the coil isnt intermittent. once it is running and warmed up check the timing aswell.
ill assume cap rotor plus n ign wires are in excellent shape.
next is fuel. ill assume clean n fresh fuel.ill assume the filter is clean and you are getting the right fuel pressure at the pump. refer to a maint manual for yr A4 as to the volume of fuel you should see in a cup after cranking a certain amount of time or a specific PSI of fuel pressure the pump should make. next that the choke is closing all the way and float level in carb is correct and that the idle muxture screw isnt set too lean and the accelerator pump is working.
Im sure others will chime in but these are some likely basics to start you off
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 06-19-2013
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Montana
Posts: 43
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Skagit is on a distinguished road
Re: Hard to Start

Curious to see what you learn...I have the same issue with my 40 year old Volvo MB10A.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 06-19-2013
travlineasy's Avatar
Morgan 33 O.I. Perryville
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,278
Thanks: 3
Thanked 56 Times in 46 Posts
Rep Power: 4
travlineasy will become famous soon enough
Re: Hard to Start

Atomic 4s have some starting issues, most of which are easily solved.

First and foremost, be sure you are using Marvel Mystery Oil in the fuel - it DOES make a big difference, especially with keeping the valve faces and seats clean, which aids dramatically in starting.

The flame arrestor is held in place by just two screws, and fairly easy to remove with an ordinary screwdriver. After removing the flam arrestor, it should be soaked in a carburetor cleaning solvent, Gumout, etc..., for a couple hours, then thoroughly rinsed in the solution, blown dry and reinstalled. An awful lot of crud will be found clogging the fins of the arrestor, which also messes up the fuel mixture.

The carburetor float must be set exactly, which is somewhat difficult to do without the aid of a float gauge. Sometimes you can eyeball the float level and hit it right, but it's a 50/50 shot at best. Of course, while you have the carb off the engine, why not give it a thorough cleaning, too. Can't hurt.

The spark plugs should be replaced every spring after burning off the fogging oil from inside the cylinders. Be sure to replace those old plugs with the hotter burning plugs, which keeps them a lot cleaner and makes the engine much easier to start.

You can find a lot more information on which plugs are best suited for your engine at Moyermarine.com .

Hope this helps,

Gary
Lubrdink likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 06-19-2013
tommays's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,234
Thanks: 1
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 6
tommays will become famous soon enough
Re: Hard to Start



Lots of possibility's But i can absolute guarantee that BOTH the fuel pump and carburetor will be packed with dirt that only soaking in a gallon can of carb cleaner will remove

You really need to remove the flame arrestor and ensure the choke plate is fully closing as the motor will NOT start cold without it

It would would be good to check compression just to be sure you have some
Lubrdink likes this.
__________________
1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1981 J24 Tangent 2930
Tommays
Northport NY


If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 06-19-2013
Lubrdink's Avatar
S/V Glenn E
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Jefferson County, KS
Posts: 77
Thanks: 20
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Lubrdink is on a distinguished road
Re: Hard to Start

Thanks for the advice guys. I just put on a new electronic ignition kit so all new plugs, wires, distributor guts, brain, etc. After starting it runs really smooth. I always use MMO in the fuel and oil and fog the cylinders in the fall.
I tried to pull the flame arrestor but it's not been off in years and the screw heads are just getting stripped. It may be that the arrestor is dirty so I'll keep working on it.
Sounds like I'm down to pulling the carb and cleaning/rebuilding but will try to get by this season as we're pulling the boat to take home this year for new deck and bottom paint.
I guess I'll add it this to the list of stuff I need to do off season.
BTW-I have been the Moyer site many times (and so has my credit card!).
Thanks guys for all the good advice. Happy sailing.
__________________
"Sailing with a hero"
Honoring S/Sgt Glenn English, Jr, Congressional Medal of Honor for heroism that cost his life in Viet Nam, 9/7/70.
Newport 27 built 1970-Hull # N270088
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 07-25-2013
Lubrdink's Avatar
S/V Glenn E
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Jefferson County, KS
Posts: 77
Thanks: 20
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Lubrdink is on a distinguished road
Re: Hard to Start

An update. A friend suggested some starting fluid (and yes, I know all the stories about too much so am VERY careful). I give it a split-second snort and it starts on the first lick every time. Maybe there's other things I will probably need to do over the winter (Clean carb, etc) but for now, I get to SAIL so am carefully using this option.

BTW-once it starts, runs beautifully after the Indigo upgrade.

Thanks for all your good advice.
__________________
"Sailing with a hero"
Honoring S/Sgt Glenn English, Jr, Congressional Medal of Honor for heroism that cost his life in Viet Nam, 9/7/70.
Newport 27 built 1970-Hull # N270088
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 11-25-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Beacon, NY
Posts: 1,925
Thanks: 14
Thanked 65 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 8
miatapaul is on a distinguished road
Re: Hard to Start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubrdink View Post
An update. A friend suggested some starting fluid (and yes, I know all the stories about too much so am VERY careful). I give it a split-second snort and it starts on the first lick every time. Maybe there's other things I will probably need to do over the winter (Clean carb, etc) but for now, I get to SAIL so am carefully using this option.

BTW-once it starts, runs beautifully after the Indigo upgrade.

Thanks for all your good advice.
To me this would indicate then that you have a fuel issue, and a carb rebuild, and electric fuel pump and new filters should get you purring like it is a new motor. On the other hand it might be lowish compression and you have found the short term fix.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Start A4 on-the-hard Barquito Atomic 4 8 08-10-2010 02:46 PM
Volvo MD 11C hard to start gbm4th Gear & Maintenance 14 03-24-2010 12:38 PM
Start A4 while on the hard? kwaltersmi Atomic 4 13 03-28-2009 06:47 PM
Hard-Start Capacitors jr438234606 Gear & Maintenance 8 07-02-2007 04:52 PM
Atomic 4 -hard to start frida Gear & Maintenance 7 01-04-2002 03:59 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:27 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.