Replacement - Heresy?

[boatpoker]

I've surveyed dozens of boat with A4's and don't understand why they have not all blown up ! Every one I have seen has at least 2 or 3 of the following issues.

1.) Improperly installed engine compartment ventilation systems (per ABYC).
2.) Engine compartment not vapour proof to the accomodation spaces.
3.) Non-ignition proof battery (auto type)chargers in the fuel/engine
compartment.
4.) AC outlets in the fuel/engine compartment.
5.) Ungrounded fuel fill/tank.

Actual selling price of a diesel vs. gas in this category is usually 2-4k more.

Ahhhh ! diesel fumes ....mothers milk

[cardiacpaul]

but out of the over 40,000 A-4's installed, do you have any numbers as to just how many have blown up boats?

I'm not talking about the guy with a lit camel refueling out of a 5 gallon can, I'm asking about real kaboom cases where the gas inboard is at fault? (on sailboats, not powerboats)

[sailboy21]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I've surveyed dozens of boat with A4's and don't understand why they have not all blown up ! Every one I have seen has at least 2 or 3 of the following issues.

1.) Improperly installed engine compartment ventilation systems (per ABYC).
2.) Engine compartment not vapour proof to the accomodation spaces.
3.) Non-ignition proof battery (auto type)chargers in the fuel/engine
compartment.
4.) AC outlets in the fuel/engine compartment.
5.) Ungrounded fuel fill/tank.

Actual selling price of a diesel vs. gas in this category is usually 2-4k more.

Ahhhh ! diesel fumes ....mothers milk

How many diesel boats with a propane system had similar faults? Engine compartment vapor proof? I'd like to see that on any small boat!

[boatpoker]

Paul:

I have no numbers, as I said I don't understand why they don't blow up but they scare me enough that I would not want one next to my boat.
As to propane, that's an entirely different topic. This is about A4's

It is extremely rare to have a fixed propane system in this class of boats as very few have room for a tank.

[sailingdog]

Atomic A4s are fairly reliable, and the whole "gasoline engine=floating bomb" is pretty much BS IMHO.

Most of the boat explosion cases due to gasoline as a fuel have had a fairly large USER ERROR human component from what I've seen. Common sense and using your built-in Mark I gasoline fume detector go a long, long way to preventing problems.

[cardiacpaul]

Yea, see, the devils in the details.
BoatUS told me that since 1980, they have paid exactly 1 claim due to a gas fuel leak/explosion on a sailboat. the Claim was from 1982. (told me this in Aug. 2008)
And, for what its worth, it was on a Palmer Johnson engine (the IH Cub) from the late 50's era. Not an A-4... On a steel hulled kit boat, so who really knows, eh?

[boatpoker]

I never did make any statement about numbers, just that I'd never seen an
A4 installation that did not scare me. After what I have seen you'd be hard pressed to change my mind on that.

I am a diesel guy and always will be cause' diesel fumes don't explode and while they may make you sick they won't kill you nearly as fast as gas fumes.
Suggest you check the BoatUS stats on CO fatalities on gas vs. diesel.

[cardiacpaul]

I have, and parsed them pretty well.
the stats they give are for ALL gas, vs. ALL Diesel not broken down by sail vs power, nor "boat" vs yacht.

The vast majority of diesels on boats are in larger craft, where they make perfect sense. ANd the installs are very different, most diesel equipped craft have proper engine rooms, most big enough to stand up in. (yea, they make sense on a sailboat too, to a point) You ever tried to changr the plugs on a twin 454 (7.4) equipped sundancer? good luck unless you're an amputee, you can't get both legs in there.
Gas is "king" in the powerboat world. Please note they do not differentiate between the 21,000 sea-rays and 35,000 bayliners... 15 -40 ft vs. the 10 Franchetti's - 60 ft and up. So the numbers are inherently skewed.
Stats are not all they're cracked up to be.
CO will kill you just as dead with either powerplant. Equally dead, equally as fast.
The simple fact is there are more gas bangers out there than there are diesels in the pleasurecraft market. And you're right, some of the installs (usually owner mods) are enough to make me put down my pb&j and head for the car, but I don't fault the fuel, I fault the owner/operator.

[boatpoker]

Diesel produces roughly 10 percent (too many variables to be more precise) of that produced by gasoline although the effect on your blood is cumulative. Where an exhaust leak from a diesel may kill you in 9hrs. a similar leak from a gasoline engine could kill in 1hr.

Most of the questionable A4 installations I have seen were factory installs ie. Non-ignition protected domestic single pole breakers without polarity indicator in the engine/fuel compartment. Solid copper conductors, No AC/DC bond, AC outlets in the engine/fuel compartment.

I do agree that these issues have been compunded by owners who think that wiring a boat is just like wiring your rec room.

[mgraham49]

You guys make me feel silly for thinking about it. And a lot better. Now to install the cool new extended dip stick that lets me check oil from the front of the engine.

On the speed deal, I changed out the prop for the Indigo Electronics 3 blade (the one in the back of good old boat that says, "repower your Atomic-4". Before that, had a 2 blade fixed, and before that a 2 blade folding. I will say that the boat handles well in reverse once I get it moving, and is easily backed into the slip.

I know that I need to check my compression, that may be the issue, And I may be unreasonable to expect any power against a headwind and waves.

All my best, thanks.