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  #11  
Old 02-29-2012
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Letrappes--

There ar 4 sheaves on the front of the mast at the masthead. The two inner sheaves are for jib halyards, the two outer sheaves are for spinnaker halyards. I have jib halyards on the inner sheaves (primary port, secondary starboard) but do not use the spinnaker sheaves as there seems to be too much chafe on the halyards where they exit the mast. I have instead a spinnaker crane with swivel blocks with the halyards exiting the mast about two feet below the masthead on either side and going up and through the swivels which eliminates most of the chafe at that point. One has to be careful where one secures the unused jib-halyards however as they will chafe the spinnaker halyard between the exit slots and the masthead swivels if one is not careful about securing them clear.

There are also 4 sheaves on the back side of the mast at the masthead, two for main and spare halyards and two more for lifts although I only have a single lift rigged. I do, however have a messenger rigged for the other sheave that can be used to haul a replacement halyard, or topping lift, up and over the spare sheave should that be necessary. (All of my halyards are 10mm T-900 which is a little slick but pretty bullet proof.)

The two stacked sheaves below the steaming/deck light are actually both for topping lifts, one each port and starboard. Because of the baby-stay, the boats were designed to be raced with two spinnaker poles rather than just one. When one wants to gybe, the lee pole is raised, clipped to the lazy sheet, the opposing after guy taken up and the opposing working sheet tripped. Bingo--the spinnaker is gybed and the lazy pole lowered to the deck and secured. Not too many boats were delivered with two poles however (mine was not) and so one must use a dip-pole gybe with the added difficulty of freeing the pole from the mast fitting, passing it forward and around the Baby-stay, and reconnecting it to the mast. That takes a couple of coordinated guys at the mast and leaves the spinnaker "flying" for a few minutes and in any serious wind--say 20+ knots or more, can be pretty exciting. If you're really going to race, buy yourself another pole and mast fitting (available through Rig-Rite) and use the two pole gybe. It's safer and easier. (Or don't and just cruise very quickly!)

A few people have attempted to use the stacked sheaves as you describe, hauling a wire stay to the mast with the upper sheave and using the topping lift in the lower sheave as a halyard for a staysail or storm jib that's hanked on, but the sheaves really aren't sturdy enough for the loads that may be generated in serious conditions, at least in my opinion.

The 4:1 Purchase on the running backs was the factory set-up with wire rope runners. The wire rope is tough to deal with and, if the boom rubs against it anywhere it will eat up the boom. The Spectra runners eliminate that issue, weigh less and have less windage, and since you're not using the secondaries when you're using the runners, can be more than adequately set up with the secondaries. Remember you never really see more than about 2000# on the runners which is easy for the Spectra and secondaries. (You only want to set the runners up enough to keep the mast from pumping and in column.)

Yep. I still have the 4-108. It is a great, sturdy, engine and with up-keep will last a long time. I have about 3300 hours on mine and, with a 2-blade Gori folding prop, have average fuel consumption of slightly under 3/4 Gal per hour at 2500 RPM while making 7+ knots (albeit with a clean bottom).

FWIW...
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  #12  
Old 02-29-2012
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Thanks for the mast head sheave layout. My spinnaker halyards are in the masthead sheaves though having not used then yet, no clue on fiction. I was wondering about three easy way to gybe the spin pole so that makes sense with a two pole layout though I only have one aboard as well. Can you give a layout the same way on the foot of the mast where they all exit?

I actually have a removable inner forestay though but it is connected into the mast about halfway batten the babystay and the forestay. On deck there is an extra padeye behind the anchor locker which ties into the bulkhead before. It has a mechanical fitting to tension which can be removed but no obvious halyard sheave near it other than those fir the pole lift. I'm guesting this wasn't standard with the boat. I'm figuring it's either for a staysail downwind or storm jib.

My Perkins is interesting. I believe the propeller is pitched wrong. I pull nearly 3200 rpm to get to the same speed as you with a clean bottom though fuel usage it's about the same. I've been told by another Perkins owner that theirs was the same but they replaced it ten years ago due to some failure so maybe their memory was wrong. The prop is a two blade non folding. No idea on make.
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Old 03-01-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Letrappes View Post
Thanks for the mast head sheave layout. My spinnaker halyards are in the masthead sheaves though having not used then yet, no clue on fiction. I was wondering about three easy way to gybe the spin pole so that makes sense with a two pole layout though I only have one aboard as well. Can you give a layout the same way on the foot of the mast where they all exit?
Hummm... Working from memory, on the starboard side of the mast from front to rear: Spinnaker Halyard, Spare Jib Halyard, Empty Slot for Starboard Pole Lift (Not used), Main Halyard. On the port side of the mast from front to rear: Secondary Spinnaker Halyard, Primary Jib Halyard, Pole Lift, Slot with Messenger for Secondary topping lift, Spare Main Halyard, Topping Lift. (I will check to ensure that the foregoing order is correct but I think so.) Note that the chafe on the spinnaker halyard at the masthead is a real PITA and not many are too thrilled at having to go up there at sea to replace the darned thing when the it breaks. You can add the masthead crane or, alternately, wrap the last 5 feet or so of your spinnaker halyards with Kevlar tape and replace it as necessary (in hindsight I might do that.)


Quote:
I actually have a removable inner forestay though but it is connected into the mast about halfway batten the babystay and the forestay. On deck there is an extra padeye behind the anchor locker which ties into the bulkhead before. It has a mechanical fitting to tension which can be removed but no obvious halyard sheave near it other than those fir the pole lift. I'm guesting this wasn't standard with the boat. I'm figuring it's either for a staysail downwind or storm jib.
I am assuming your intermediate stay is connected to the mast at about where the slots for the runners are and, if so, your good to go. The tang likely has a spare hole for connecting a swivel block to take a staysail halyard which can be run externally. This is an excellent arrangement and when the stay is set up, you can dispense with the baby-stay which can be moved over and temporarily secured at the lower shroud base leaving room to carry a dinghy inverted on the foredeck. Friends of ours with the same boat (Ocean Angel) who are now waiting for a weather window in Great Bay, Peter Island, BVI for a passage to St. Martin, have this same arrangement and are very happy with it. The stay works for a hanked on storm jib or a non-overlapping staysail which is very effective in heavy air. You might care to correspond with Ocean Angel. They can be reached through their website at Sailing with Ocean Angel

Quote:
My Perkins is interesting. I believe the propeller is pitched wrong. I pull nearly 3200 rpm to get to the same speed as you with a clean bottom though fuel usage it's about the same. I've been told by another Perkins owner that theirs was the same but they replaced it ten years ago due to some failure so maybe their memory was wrong. The prop is a two blade non folding. No idea on make.
Either your tack is wrong (given the fuel consumption you quote) or the you have an under sized /under pitched prop. (I've not seen a First 42 with a fixed prop so yours might be a replacement?) Our prop is a 10x20 that is a bit over diameter but works well enough. At 3000 RPM I'm pushing 8-1/2 to 9 knots but the fuel consumption goes way up. Our engine is happiest at 2500 to 2800 RPM which keeps us in the 7-8 knot range. We do push it once in awhile but not often (usually only when my wife is tired and she wants to get home "right now" or we're trying to dodge a squall or a ship.) Ocean Angel has a folding 3-blade that I believe is 16" diameter. A bit small but with the added blade seems to work well enough and is quite smooth. As/When/if we win the Lottery, I'm going to switch to a 17x12 3-blade Flex-O-Fold which is very smooth and efficient (in 2006 I was quoted $1600 for that by Cruising Solutions but the price has certainly increased since then).

One thing that you might want to look into a changing out the air intake filter on the engine for a KN Filter, RX 3800 (See KNFilters.com). You have to punch a hole in the side of the housing to take the breather from the crank case but that's easy enough. The through-put is much improved which makes the engine quieter and the crank-case pressure is reduced which really reduces the oil seepage around the rear seal which is a universal affliction of 4-108's.

The 4-108 really is a very good engine and, considering the use in tractors and generators world wide, parts are pretty easy to obtain and repairs effected. As/When/If mine ever needs it, I'll rebuild it before changing to a different engine.

FWIW...
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  #14  
Old 03-12-2012
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Thanks. I'm trying to get everything in line with what you have posted. Do you know a supplier for the sheaves on the boom aft end and aft bottom of mast? I'm missing a few. Also any good idea on how to run new lines inside the mast without getting tangled with the ones currently in place?

I tried looking up the air filter but couldn't find it. They might have updated the number on it. Do you know any dimensions on it?

I really appreciate the help.
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Old 03-13-2012
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Re: Beneteau First 42 Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Letrappes View Post
I purchased a Beneteau First 42 in December and am looking to find a manual for it. I have tons of paperwork in the boat but it was not included. I called the factory and they sent me a couple brochures but don't have a manual. Does anyone know where I might find one? I'm specifically looking for technical details such as how it was originally wired, plumbing runs, standing and running rigging specs, etc.
Hi, new member here.......I have an original manual that is printed in french(I think I made an english copy...I'll ck). I'll copy and mail. Send address to kiaora-7@comcast.net.
Give me a few weeks...I'm cruising the caribbean and will not be home till sometime in April.
I have an '85 first 42 since 1987. Mostly club race(we have enough B42s to comprise out own section/start) with limited cruising thru the Great Lakes. LOVE THE BOAT!!!
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Old 03-13-2012
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Re: Beneteau First 42 Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Letrappes View Post
Thanks. I'm trying to get everything in line with what you have posted. Do you know a supplier for the sheaves on the boom aft end and aft bottom of mast? I'm missing a few. Also any good idea on how to run new lines inside the mast without getting tangled with the ones currently in place?

I tried looking up the air filter but couldn't find it. They might have updated the number on it. Do you know any dimensions on it?

I really appreciate the help.
Letrappes--

Sorry I have been out'a the loop for awhile. My (59 YO) little sister passed away on Feb 1st and we've been dealing with the loss and the aftermath.

RigRite carries the sheaves you need although Garhaurer can also supply them in hardened Aluminum with bearings which are much preferable. When I get home--in'a few daze--I'll PM you the boom spec's and you can compare RigRite and Garhaurer. Frankly I'd suggest Garhaurer but if you choose to do so, don't tell Mark I recommended them. If you do, they'll likely charge you a premium as I've been wheedling Mark's prices down for years--and before him, Bill and Mary's--and they always complain about loosing money on every sale they agree to with me! N'any case, they make the best gear at the best price and stand behind their work. (What'a novelty, eh?)

I gave you the KN web-site. Give them a call and let them know you have a 1985 era 4-108 and they'll fix you up.

FWIW...

svHyLyte
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Old 03-15-2012
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Thanks Hylite. I'll give K&N a call. I thought you had manually sized one and didn't realize it was already made up by them.

Beneteau sent me my new keel bolts after being on order about a month. I bought the tools to replace it which included a 1-3/16 socket. I cleaned up keel bolt and tried the socket on it and it's too large. I'm now worried they might have sent me the wrong size bolts. Anyone else experience this? I have taken a bolt out yet to determine bolt size and threads yet.
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Old 03-17-2012
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Re: Beneteau First 42 Manual

Its not a manual but I thought you'd get a kick out of it.. an origional page from a sailing rag addvertizing the first 42.. bought it on E-Bay..
Thought Id get a copy but got the origional page as it has a different add on the back..
If you'd like a copy, drop me a private e-mail with your address and Ill send you one..
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Old 03-17-2012
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Re: Beneteau First 42 Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Letrappes View Post
Thanks Hylite. I'll give K&N a call. I thought you had manually sized one and didn't realize it was already made up by them.

Beneteau sent me my new keel bolts after being on order about a month. I bought the tools to replace it which included a 1-3/16 socket. I cleaned up keel bolt and tried the socket on it and it's too large. I'm now worried they might have sent me the wrong size bolts. Anyone else experience this? I have taken a bolt out yet to determine bolt size and threads yet.
Letrappes--

Assuming you have the shoal draft cast iron keel you need 16 M20 20mmx70mm "Dacromatized" Type 8-8 bolts. These will accept a 1-3/16" (i.e. 20mm) socket. If the 1-3/16" socket is too large and that is not due to erosion of the bolt heads, you may have M14 bolts (although I find that unlikely). Your VIN Number (on the upper starboard corner of your transom) should be all that Todd or Warren at BeneteauUSA need to ensure you have gotten the right bolts. If you have the M14 bolts, they need be tightened to an average torque of 50.5 ft-lbs (no less than 36 nor more than 65). If you have M20 bolts, the torque should be an average of 144.5 ft-lbs (no less than 94 nor more than 195). It is possible, but not likely, that you could have A4-70 or A4-80 stainless steel bolts, either M14, M20, or M24 size, but they would not show rusting as do the Dacromatized mild-steel bolts (i.e. they will not give you a warning before they fail).

For what it's worth, I have never heard of a First 42 suffering keel bolt failure and, in the case of our own boat, when we extracted 8 of 16 to replace during our last haul-out, they came out clean and dry and with the sealing compound that had been applied to the top 1/4 of the bolts in March of 1986, still clean, white and pliable, despite many years of hard sailing including at least one rough Trans-Atlantic crossing.

I will send you a Private Message (i.e. "PM") with my home email address and if you respond I will forward a data sheet on the replacement of the keel bolts. Trust me, it "ain't that big'a deal". Go sailing and stop worrying. The boat, like an old horse, will take care of itself (and you in the process).

svHyLyte
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Old 11-12-2012
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Cool Re: Beneteau First 42 Manual

Letrappes,

I know it has been several months since any posts on this forum but wanted to chat with you regarding First 42 in Lake Charles area. I recently purchased a1982 First 42 in Lake Charles and thought it might be the boat you asked about.
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