Faulty survey

[AE28]

The last time I looked at a survey, it ended with a bunch of legalsleeze that boiled down to, in my opinion, the surveyor is not responsible for the quality of his work.

[WouldaShoulda]

Not only that, but only the purchaser of the survey would have standing. He'd probably get pissed because his intellectual property was transferred without his permission.

Let all this be a lesson out there...

[Cruisingdad]

Agree with most of the posts above: You are screwed.

Also, regarding surveys, I have always thought that you were paying for the surveyors OPINION of what condition a boat was in, and what needed to be fixed... and NOT what ACTUAL condition the boat was in, and what needed to be fixed. Big difference.

No doubt JoeTheCobbler would jump all over this with his seal of approval, but that is why it is imperative that if you are going to contract someone to review your choice of boat, you need someone that is reputable and BETTER at it than you. It is, otherwise, an exercise in futility. Caveat Emptor. You just bought a learning experience. I hope it was not too expeisve.

- CD

[k1vsk]

Originally Posted by cardiacpaul

I suppose that my O&E insurance premium is just a waste of time then, eh?

given the wealth of mis-information here, it is clear that there are many who have no clue what the extent of a surveyor's liability really is and how little the disclaimers in the conventional survey report really mean.

It would be educational to many here if you were to describe the liability you face every time to sign your name, how expensive E&O liability premiums are becoming and why you are almost compelled to have it.

The other point worth making here is that people should not feel compelled to comment on something about which they know little (and as a result prove it) or, as a minimum, describe their comments as opinion rather than disguise it as fact.

[AE28]

Originally Posted by cardiacpaul

I suppose that my O&E insurance premium is just a waste of time then, eh?

I'd need to read that you say at the end of your written survey to respond intelligently.

[k1vsk]

Excellent summary which should clear up any misconceptions. All too often, people fail to fully appreciate the motivation of a surveyor to get it "right" derives not only from their reputation but also their liability. I would add only that no finding of negligence is necessary to burden a surveyor with liability; only an error or omission as as all surveyors are human, either are inevitable.

With respect to someone who relies upon a third party survey including one obtained through a broker where no direct contractual relationship exists with the buyer, the liability falls entirely on the buyer.

[SEMIJim]

Originally Posted by cardiacpaul

... would you lay out 150k of your hard earned money on a house purchase without an inspection?

People do it all the time, CP. They also buy property w/o engaging the services of a real estate attorney, which I think equally unwise. (I've got a stack of books a foot to a foot-and-a-half high on everything from home construction, to well & septic systems, to topo maps and USGS soil surveys, to financing, to "real estate law for dummies," to... well, you get the idea. And still I hired a home inspector and a real estate attorney.)

Jim

[Cruisingdad]

Originally Posted by cardiacpaul

I'll give the 5 minute tour, I'm quasi-retired. (mostly just tired)

Because I'm no longer actively engaged, I've stopped the E&O insurance.

last years premium?
4879.00 (for 250k umbrella coverage, 10k deductible) no, they don't pay my legal fees in case I'm sued, just theirs. )

In non barrister terms, If I miss anything, like a wet deck, I'm on the hook to make the contracted party whole. If I say there is a fire extinguisher and there isn't, I get to buy one.

If I say the running rigging is in safe and usable condition and the first time out a line breaks and the boom slaps a crew member in the noggin, I'm buying the line, and quite possibly his medical bills, lost wages, and his wife or girlfriend a trip to Cabo.

One can state in the contract that the "company" (surveyor) has no liability for anything, and this varies from state to state, but generally there is an implied "warranty" that the work done by the surveyor is to be construed as a writ of merchantability for the product (the boat).
Meaning, its a boat, its in whatever condition its in (today, not tomorrow, the next day, all bets are off) , and this is what its going to take to repair it to a certain condition.

In effect you are legally responsible for your survey? Then I have been mistaken about this for a long time. As I stated earlier, I thought you were paid for your OPINION... not for what is actually there.

Learned something here.

- CD

[sailingfool]

I still don't think the surveyor is really on the hook for anything, perhaps short of criminal negligence. Here's the text from my last survey:
***********************************
Payment for and acceptance of this survey or appraisal constitutes understanding of and agreement to the following:
a. This report is signed and issued in good faith without prejudice and is a description of the condition as then found.
b. This survey or appraisal, unless otherwise stated, was made without removal and/or borings of structural members
and/or removal of fastenings and is based on visual examination of accessible areas. Unless otherwise stated, a moisture
meter was not used.
c. Main engine(s) and/or auxiliaries were not surveyed by the undersigned, other than mentioned. A professional engine
survey is always recommended.
d. This survey or appraisal report does not constitute an inventory.
e. This report is not a warranty or guarantee either expressed or implied that unforeseen and/or undetected defect or damage
does not exist. This is especially true during winter months when all systems and equipment can not be checked.
f. While great care was taken with this survey and report, this surveyor, can not be held responsible, in any way, for any
inaccuracy, errors in judgment, omission, negligence or misstatement.
g. This surveyor is performing independently and my compensation is not contingent upon the reporting of a predetermined value.
h. The undersigned, in making this report, is acting on behalf of the person or firm requesting same.

******************************
This survey missed several big items, including a leaking fuel tank, ended up costing me about $8-12,000 at least.

Before folks post to say I am wrong in my opinion, as I may well be, I'd like to hear one or two reports from people who have collected anything more than the fee back from a "faulty" survey.

[AE28]

"f. While great care was taken with this survey and report, this surveyor, can not be held responsible, in any way, for any inaccuracy, errors in judgment, omission, negligence or misstatement."

In my opinion, this says "I'm not responsible for the quality of my work".

If it's just so much gibberish, why say it???