Moorings Sunsail owned boat negociating

[bonvent]

I am in the process of buying a boat from Sunsail fleet through Moorings Brokerage. The boat is Sunsail owned.
Would someone with a previous experience give me some advice and tips about what is negotiable, what is not, by how much etc..... Delivery, US registration etc...
For example, they tell me they cannot put new sails for the price.
Thank you.
Bon Vent !

[kd3pc]

in this market, everything is negotiable...

In the past they priced their boats where they thought they would sell in 30-45 days, and stood firm. I would ask them or another broker to get you recent sold prices from Yachtworld, those prices from 2006-2008 don't matter. Just the recent ones.

Then offer what the boat is worth to you...it is a buyers market. I would also look for similar boats near you, there is nothing special about Sunsail boats, except many hours of use, way beyond that of a privately owned boat.

Best of luck

[sailingdog]

I would question why you are buying an ex-charter boat. The cabin layouts are often less than desirable for a privately owned boat, often having two aft cabins instead of a single larger aft cabin and such. They have significantly more wear and abuse than a privately owned boat of the same age generally. The sail handling gear on them is often a bit undersized compared to a privately owned boat of the same LOA. They often have damage from groundings or collisions due to the inexperience of some charter clients.

Unless you're getting a very serious discount, I would recommend looking elsewhere. YMMV.

[Chuteman]

BV - Are You looking in the Mediterranean?

New Sails - the ex-charter boats are usually sold "as-is" unless something is damaged. Plus wouldn't you want to control any equipment changes or upgrades?

Registration - There are a few firms that will help with those procedures if you choose not to do yourself

[BarryL]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

I would question why you are buying an ex-charter boat. .....[deleted]

Unless you're getting a very serious discount, I would recommend looking elsewhere. YMMV.

The discount IS the reason. For example, you can buy a 2005 Beneteau 37' but for $80K. The cheapest you will find this boat anywhere but from a charter fleet, is $120-$140K. That is a huge savings. Or, for the same money, you will have to buy a boat that is 10+ years older.

I don't know if I would buy an ex charter boat, but would not automatically rule one out.

Barry

[sailingdog]

Yes, but the charter fleet boat may well have more wear and tear on it than a privately owned model ten years older.

Originally Posted by BarryL

The discount IS the reason. For example, you can buy a 2005 Beneteau 37' but for $80K. The cheapest you will find this boat anywhere but from a charter fleet, is $120-$140K. That is a huge savings. Or, for the same money, you will have to buy a boat that is 10+ years older.

I don't know if I would buy an ex charter boat, but would not automatically rule one out.

Barry

[Zanshin]

I purchased my previous boat from Sunsail as an ex-charter boat. There is a big difference between a boat that has gone through phase-out and one that has not. Which base is the boat from and do you have a good recommendation for a surveyor (probably one of the most important things you need to do)?

[night0wl]

Originally Posted by BarryL

The discount IS the reason. For example, you can buy a 2005 Beneteau 37' but for $80K. The cheapest you will find this boat anywhere but from a charter fleet, is $120-$140K. That is a huge savings. Or, for the same money, you will have to buy a boat that is 10+ years older.

I don't know if I would buy an ex charter boat, but would not automatically rule one out.

Barry

Equipment differences will probably eat up $10-$20k of that difference. Charter boats vs owner boats lack the following:
1) Decent chartplotter and sailing electronics ($3-$5000 easy)
2) Autopilots (another $1200)
3) Extra winches & halyards ($2500-$5000)...most charter boats will have primaries and perhaps one coachtop winch....cruising you'll want at least 1 more coachtop.
4) Charter boat likely wont have A/C or GenSet ($2000-$4000). EU2000 ($900) + Cruise Air ($1200) if you do the labor yourself

Repairs and extra wear/tear is the rest
1) Probably will need new sails
2) Engine probably has 2000-5000 hours...vs an owner boat will have 1/4 or less...whats that worth?
3) Head and hoses are probably worn from so much use
4) Interior cushions will be gross need replacement

[Zanshin]

I disagree with Night0wl on the state of ex-charter boats. All of the ones I looked at had full autopilots and some even had radar (which the charter companies tended to de-activate). My charter boat had a good Raymarine autopilot with full instruments (but a crappy plotter), a genset, air conditioning, harken winches, etc. In addition, it had all of the small stuff that one tends to forget about (legal flares, 12 lifevests + harnesses, cutlery, pots, pans, glasses, extinguishers, and the other items that are required for commercial charter and private owners tend to overlook). The sails were almost unused but the engine hours high. The boat was worn inside and the wood scratched and dented, but over time I sanded and varnished to restore a bit of lustre. There was enough food in the hidden areas under the floorboards to feed a starving village and half a beach as well, but careful cleaning and a shop-vac took care of that.
All in all I still feel that the savings in price were well worth the experience and I would do it again; that having been said I now have a newer and never-been-chartered-boat and the differences are huge, but so was the price.

[blackjenner]

I had a discussion with a broker about a charter for sale. He told me they dive every boat after every charter to check for damage. He also said that's not common. The boat was a Beneteau 37. It looked pretty good. There was a lot of equipment. It was very clean, both in the cabin and in the engine compartment. Granted, this is in the PNW, where they don't charter the boat all the time.

Though the layout was very open, it wasn't the boat for us.