First offer out -- and inital dissapointment

[blackjenner]

We are learning about the process, that's for sure.

We've found a boat that we'd like to have. We don't have to have it. We'd like to have it. That distinction is clear. There are plenty of boats out there and, while it is a buyer's market, it's important to me to make reasonable (not horsetrading, take whatever I can from the seller, lowball) offers.

There are two others of exactly the same model in our area, all of them in good shape that we can tell.

We are planning on buying a boat after we sell our home. The real estate market is getting better here with two units selling in my condo buildings (only seven units here total) in the last six months, neither of them on the market for more than 30 days.

Our plan was to look at boats, build a list of candidates, and make an offer from that list when our house sells.

Well, we found one that been sitting on the market for ten months and it's one of the ones we are interested in. Our broker said to try a contingency offer because she has seen it work before. So she wrote an offer that seemed to make sense for us and the seller. She sent it to the other broker on Saturday. It looks like this:

1) We put 1% down as a good faith offer and offer the buyer 100K on a 110K boat and are willing to come up to 105K, no problem.

2) We communicate the status of our home sale process to the other broker as it goes along (got an offer, they got financing, we should close X date, etc).

3) They can still show the boat and, if they get a bonafide offer, we have 72 hours to cough up the other 9% and start the closing process or lose the boat and the other party guys it. We get our deposit back. Note they can still show the boat. Nothing is locked up for the seller.

4) We get pre-approval to show our work on our end, that we are serious.

5) If no other buyer appears (boat has been on the market for 10 months) we hand over the rest of the deposit when our house closes and go through with the financing, survey, sea trials and close.

We hear back today.

1) Buyer says, "what's in this for me?"

2) Counters with 105K

3) 5% down and lock his boat up for [some period of] days

3) I spend 1K on a haul and survey, even before pre-approval on financing.

4) If we don't sell our home in that time specified, and don't come up with the deposit and down we lose our 5K deposit to him.

Our broker agrees this places all the risk on us. All of it.

I'm not offended by this counter but I do wonder.

What's in it for you, seller, on the boat you dropped 20K in 10 months of being on the market with not one offer?

What's in it for you is this...

An interested buyer who is going through a process and are asking nothing more than first right of refusal on the boat; nothing more. If you find another buyer in that time, you have *two* interested buyers. One of them will buy your boat. Either we will come up with the cash in time or you go to the buyer behind door number 2.

So, I'll mull this over.

The thing is...we don't love this boat in a co-dependant kind of way. We don't need this particular boat. We like it. We think it will fit our needs and we didn't lowball the guy on it.

Did readers note there are two others in the area?

If need be, we withdraw our offer, sell our home, get pre-approved for a purchase in our price range and, after the house is sold, do things on our timetable.

If it's still on the market, offer him 90 or 95 K for it.

Time will tell but, this is clearly a learning process.

[SailKing1]

It is a buyers market. What is in it for the buyer is a strong probable based on you synopsis. Or You can look at others and one WILL take your offer.

In short, Hold to your guns. By the way if you gave any indication to the broker you would move on price on down they would inform the buyer as to how to reply.

Good luck

[bljones]

Walk away. For two reasons.
1. It's not the right boat. You make it clear that you aren't in love with it, no emotional attachment. Remember this is going to be your HOME. A home that floats, and that requires at least a minimal amount of upkeep to retain that floating aspect of it's design. If you don't love her, you won't maintain her with the same fervour that you would with a boat you love.

2. It's not the right time. Sell the house, get 60 day closing terms, and go shopping with cash in hand- you will have more leverage to negotiate a better deal (money talks and complicated offers with conditions and contingencies make sellers balk, as you have discovered), and it gives you time to find the RIGHT boat, not the boat right now.


Now that the offer has been written back, how do you feel? if you feel bemused and a little relieved, you know this was not the right time and the right boat. If, on the other hand, you are disappointed and hurt, I take back what I said above.

[blackjenner]

Originally Posted by SailKing1

It is a buyers market. What is in it for the buyer is a strong probable based on you synopsis. Or You can look at others and one WILL take your offer.

In short, Hold to your guns. By the way if you gave any indication to the broker you would move on price on down they would inform the buyer as to how to reply.

Good luck

Thanks. I have not said anything about my price dropping in direct proportion to how difficult this deal gets or if the seller is not interested in playing this time. Those are just my internal thoughts at this point.

Again, thanks.

[blackjenner]

Originally Posted by bljones

Walk away. For two reasons.
1. It's not the right boat. You make it clear that you aren't in love with it, no emotional attachment. Remember this is going to be your HOME. A home that floats, and that requires at least a minimal amount of upkeep to retain that floating aspect of it's design. If you don't love her, you won't maintain her with the same fervour that you would with a boat you love.

Oh we'd love her all right. It just isn't a need to have this particular model enough to make bad decisions.

2. It's not the right time. Sell the house, get 60 day closing terms, and go shopping with cash in hand- you will have more leverage to negotiate a better deal (money talks and complicated offers with conditions and contingencies make sellers balk, as you have discovered), and it gives you time to find the RIGHT boat, not the boat right now.


Now that the offer has been written back, how do you feel? if you feel bemused and a little relieved, you know this was not the right time and the right boat. If, on the other hand, you are disappointed and hurt, I take back what I said above.

Thanks for your opinion. It makes perfect sense to me.

[Stillraining]

I think you made a gallant offer...

I have stated online before that unless some one is willing to through down the 10% they are not serious and no need to let them sea trial the boat...But you are not asking for that... and IMHO this seller is throwing away a perfectly good serious buyer and opportunity that may well indeed turn into a sale with no cost or limitation to pursue other offers to him what so ever..

Id walk just on that merit alone.

If it were me Id sell the house, come back and offer him 90 cash take it or leave it.....Yes the Lord is still working on me..

[sailingdog]

read my sig... you have no business owning a boat you don't love. IMHO, unloved boats are a blight.

As you said, there are two other boats very similar to this one. The market for boats is VERY soft right now. He's paying $XXX per month to store the boat. If he's smart, he's also paying $xx per month to maintain, clean and keep up the boat. That's money out of his pocket. If he has a loan on the boat, he's paying that every month too. You're giving him a reasonable offer, with reasonable conditions attached.

If the owner of the boat doesn't see what you're doing as more than reasonable...he's nuts. Most boats don't sell for their asking price. Very few are maintained well enough to warrant selling for their asking price.

I agree with Still that the way this seller is treating you and your offer is reason enough to walk, especially since you don't love the boat.

I'd point out that when I went through the boat buying process for my boat.... after my first test sail on a Telstar 28, I KNEW it was the boat I wanted. It had the features, the speed, the comforts that I was looking for. As an added bonus, I had a chance to speak with Tony Smith, the designer for almost eight hours over two days about the boat and his very brutally honest feedback on what was good, bad and could be improved on the boat was what clinched it.

[LandLocked66c]

I agree with BL, wait a little longer with cash in hand! I wouldn't and haven't sold to people that make things appear more difficult. I understand your offer completely and even agree with it - but would still probably balk just to give me a feeling of control... Just my .02

[wind_magic]

I think you are just confusing everything by jumbling two separate concepts into one contract.

What you are really talking about is 1) an option to purchase, and 2) an offer.

The option is just a contract with the seller where you pay an out of pocket premium to keep the boat off the market for a period of time, that premium gets pocketed by the seller whether you purchase the boat or not, it is the money they keep just for keeping their boat off the market. Remember, by keeping the boat off the market they are agreeing to cover costs such as insurance and storage fees that they will incur until the option expires, those costs add up, so that's what you're really paying for when you buy the option to purchase.

The offer itself is an entirely separate issue ...

By trying to combine the two you are just causing a lot of confusion, in my opinion. What you want is an option that is completely separate, that way the seller knows they will get their premium for keeping the boat off the market for a period of time and can calculate their expenses, and you (the buyer) can still retain the freedom to walk away from the boat if you find another boat you like more than this one, or if your house doesn't sell, or whatever. I think the seller's message to you is that they don't want to give you an option to purchase for free, they're saying either buy the option or buy the boat.

Of course, as always, seek professional legal advice ..

[eherlihy]

"What's in this for me?" I would have replied; "a thousand dollars toward the sale, an agreed upon purchase price, and a buyer for your boat." I have been looking at boats for a while, and I believe that most sellers are unsuccessfully trying to play hardball.

I know that the seller made a mistake. You are essentially offering him 1K for first right of refusal on a 100K boat. I just saw a boat that I really liked sell for (I believe) less than I would have offered, because the owner promised first right of refusal to someone else - for free.

I mostly agree with bljones.

Put your condo on the market, and look at the other two boats while you wait for an offer to come in on the condo. When the condo sells, or at least when you have an offer in hand, then approach the owner of the boat that you like the most and offer him/her $95K. If he/she doesn't take it, tell them that there are two other sellers that have the same boat for sale (presumably at the same price, and in similar condition), and one of them probably will.

If you don't love the boat, it is not worth parting with $1000 of your hard-earned dollars for first right of refusal.