what to put in purchase and sale

[gmrfreespirit]

Need input with what to put in a purchase and sale agreement. besides conditional on an acceptable survey, if boat is still in winter storage, how do you handle sea trial? Do you accept boat and hold back money? Any other input? GMR

[sailingfool]

I assume you will be using the standard YBAA agreement:
http://www.integrityyachtsales.com/i..._Agreement.pdf

Some caveats:
1. Give yourself enough time to find and schedule an excellent surveyor, which means he/she should be very busy and booking 3-4 weeks out. So 5 weeks for acceptance is good, although the seller won't like it.
2. Have a seperate engine survey done.
3. If the boat is on the hard, you can write in a provision for a sea trial, usually to be performed following the Spring launch to test the operation fo equipment not subject to testing on the hard, with an escrow, typically around $5000 held out for replacement of any non-performing equipment.

[Architeuthis]

Each deal will be different but here is what I would suggest and have done.

If the boat is on the hard I did not require a sea trail when I made my offer, nor a survey. In fact I preferred the boat being on the hard. Think carefully about what a sea trail is going to tell you and look at the boat with that in mind.

If you are unable to determine if the seacocks are in good condition while on the hard then I would say they are not. Same is true for other items on the boat. You wonder if the rigging works, again inspect it, if mast is on raise sails or at least halyards and so on.

To me this is not more time consuming than a sea trial as I would do these inspections even if the items did work.

The engine can be run on the hard, most everything can be inspected more easily on the hard than in the water.

Yet there are things that a splash will reveal, most would have to be fraudently hidden to not be seen in a good inspection.

Then there are those custom boats. The cookie cutters (mass produced boats) are always easier to inspect as you would have looked at (or at least I did) many even dozens of identical boats (when they were built anyway). This enables you to compare apples to apples.

I found custom or old one offs are the hardest to judge. A survey will help but there can be lots of major problems no one is aware of. I did not buy one of those because the owner sees nothing but a great boat, I see nothing but risk, and since I could not afford a mistake we could not agree on price. They should be sailed as the mast (and other items) may well be in the wrong spot and the owner just got used to it.

I ran away from deals in which it appeared I needed to cover my butt because I was unable to see items or there seemed to be the likelyhood of fraud or lets just say inconsistencies in the story and the item being sold.

All deals have deception, even going through a broker. Your job is to discover them. Find any other than the usual and acceptable then walk away from the deal.

As for items included I would suggest everything seen is included. Take lots of pictures. I got ripped on that, minor issue but still there. When I said all boat stuff remain I expected all boat stuff to remain. The person cleaning out the boat (owners son) decided that meant all boat stuff bolted down remained. He only took a few items I would have preferred to remain so I said lesson learned. The next boat seller will wonder why I'm including pics in the contract but a pic can save a thousand words.

Sellers that have items on the boat that are not include in the sale should not be given the same credit as the seller that has properly prepped the boat.

But as I said each deal is a little different, if you do not feel comfortable inspecting a boat yourself, or do not have time, or are spending so much money that others have something in the deal then I would suggest making an offer with a small amount down to show you are serious and then complete the transaction after all inspections, surveys, and trials.

Cleaner clearer deals are better than complex ones but complex is sometimes needed.

[chuck53]

FIrst of all, what are you buying? A 20' daysailer doesn't need much as far as a survey goes.
A 35-40 footer is a different story, You've got 110v and 12v electrical systems to check, probably a gas oven/stove, water tanks and plumbing, sanitation system, maybe heat and AC, and that's on top of checking the hull and rigging.
Yes, you can run the engine on the hard, but you can't run the engine under load on the hard. A surveyor will insist on both in-water and out of water inspection as well as a sea trial. If you're going to the time and trouble to do a survey (and you should), do it right. In-water, out of water and sea trial.

[gmrfreespirit]

Thank you all for your input. We are using the standard P & S agreement. I have pushed the dates out to give us a few more weeks. Interesting you mentioned that as the broker put in too tight a time line. My husband is arranging for a surveror and you are correct that they are really busy. We do not want to rush this as it is alot of money. we will be surveying b 38' Hunter on the hard. Launching is paid for by sellor, however, stepping the mast and rigging it will be our expense. So my next question is, we have kept out money in escrow but should we close on the boat prior to launching it. That is what they want us to do. GMR

[sailingdog]

GMR—

If you haven't already, I'd recommend you read the Boat Inspection Trip Tips thread I started, as it will help you determine whether this boat is worth going ahead with a survey on.

[GeorgeDog]

Originally Posted by gmrfreespirit

So my next question is, we have kept out money in escrow but should we close on the boat prior to launching it. That is what they want us to do. GMR

We don't hand money over or close until we know we want the boat, and that isn't until we've thoroughly inspected, surveyed, and sailed the vessel. The reason is simple: if something comes up we don't want to feel pressured or obligated to take the boat. Otherwise why even perform a sea trial? We do everything in our control to expedite the purchase process but if the seller doesn't agree then we walk away.

You are the only one that you can trust to look out for your interests... everyone else only profits from a sale. Since you asked the question you must feel uneasy about closing at this point...so don't.