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  #1  
Old 11-02-2010
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Corsair Trimarans vs. Telstar 28

This is a response to a post in another thread, which I split off so as not to hijack the original thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clindsey View Post
Of the corsair line of boats? Other than space between the 28 telstar and the corsair?
I liked the older Corsairs, pre-2001, a lot. The quality of the line as a whole has dropped, especially since they moved production off-shore to Vietnam. The lowering of quality is the main reason for the split between Ian Farrier and Corsair Marine IIRC.

However, there were a few reasons I decided to go with the Telstar over the older, more market-proven Corsairs.

1) The Corsairs require a wrench to tighten the amas and to extend/retract the amas. If you drop the wrench or bolts over the side, you're screwed unless you have spares. The Telstar 28 does not require tools or bolts, it uses a set of line clutches to tighten/lock the amas and nets on each side.

2) The Corsairs can't really keep the amas folded when stored in the water, since the amas tip horizontally to fold, leaving the topsides in the water. Unless you want to paint the topsides with anti-fouling paint, it isn't practical This is why the Corsairs are generally on lifts or mooring balls. I've never seen one stored in a slip. I kept my Telstar in a slip for the first two years I owned her. The amas can be folded in and don't increase the length of the boat at all, but also don't require any special treatment, since they don't change orientation. The waterline has to be a tiny bit higher on them, but nothing really noticeable.

3) The Corsair amas don't really provide any support when folded, leaving the boat less stable when they're folded. The Telstar 28's amas are submersed another 4" so that they contribute significant stability to the main hull when retracted.

4) The mast raising system on the Corsairs is really questionable and uses the trailer winch to work. Of the five Corsair 31s I looked at, three were being sold because the owners had dropped the masts and found it was too dangerous for them/their families. The mast raising system on the Telstar 28 makes this a non-issue, on the hard or afloat. It is one of the few mast raising/lowering systems that can be stopped and have the mast left partially raised or lowered for weeks at a time safely. Makes working on the mast top very simple.

5) The interior cabin space of the Telstar 28 is almost equal to that of the Corsair 31, which is almost twice the price. The Telstar 28 comes with a real head and galley, unlike the Corsair 28, which normally is outfitted with a porta-pottie and camping stove. Also, standing headroom in the Corsair 28 is less than 5'. Most of my crew and friends are 6' or so...and the Telstar 28 has 6' of standing headroom through most of the interior.

6) Rigging—the standing rigging on the Telstar 28 is simpler and the boat comes with a true backstay, unlike the running backs that are on the Corsairs. I like the more conservative rigging setup for a cruising boat.

7) Price, the Telstar 28 was half the price of a Corsair 31 and a bit less than that of the Corsair 28. I can't see paying twice as much for a boat that doesn't give me twice as much value.

However, I will say that the fit and finish on the Corsairs, at least pre-2001, is better than that of the Telstar 28. One thing about Performance Cruising, the maker of the Telstar 28, is that they do try and build to a specific price point, and the construction and fit and finish of their boats shows that. It isn't as nicely finished as a Corsair, but given the difference in value the boat represents, that wasn't an issue for me.

That said, the Corsair 28 is a faster boat than the Telstar 28. The Corsair 24/28 are primarily designed for racing and as such are designed to fly an ama when under sail. The Telstar 28, which was designed as a cruising boat, is not designed to fly an ama and has more wetted surface area as a result. It also is a much heavier boat than the Corsair 28, since it has a significantly larger cabin. It also has a bit less sail area.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Last edited by sailingdog; 11-02-2010 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 11-02-2010
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Hey Dan,

Nice write up. SO, you consider your Telstar a cruising boat? You mentioned the running backstays and I would have thought you would have gone with a runner instead. We also haefv a mechanism ( i do not know the name of it) on a boat I race on that keep the backstay in tact, however, you can increase the tension with a device that moves up and down the split. You do have to have a split backstay for it to work, but neat none the less. I guess I am just surprised that you would not want a running backstay on that boat because I always took it for a performance boat.

2) WHat kind of real world performance do you get? How close can she point and what do you make on various points of sail (generalities). Saw a F-24 (I think that was what it was... pretty sure) and that boat rocked in a race.

Brian
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Old 11-02-2010
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Brian—

I've had my boat up to 15 knots, and regularly sail it at 8-12 knots comfortably, without much effort on my part. Can't say that's true of many sailboats, especially ones that are under 30' LOA. The other day, we were out in fairly light winds, 5-8 knots or so, and we were still sailing at four knots or so most of the time, and that was without using the screacher, which I have put away for the season.

As sailboats go, the Telstar is a performance boat, but not an out and out racer, especially compared to the racing oriented Corsair 28, which is raced as a one-design. Running backs are a PITA, and I'm much happier to have a real backstay. One way to look at it is that the Telstar is a performance cruiser rather than a pure racing machine. The fact that she's really not designed to fly an ama, ever, really speaks to fact that she's designed to carry cruising type loads, rather than race.

BTW, I use a 4:1 garhauer boom vang to tension the backstay on my boat, which is an upgrade since the original setup uses a stanchion mounted cleat, rather than the fiddle block with cam cleat on my setup.

I can point pretty high, but she starts to really pinch at 40˚ apparent or so. If I drop down to 45˚ I pick up a good deal more speed and can make better VMG than when pointed higher. The later models have a deeper draft centerboard and can probably point a tiny bit higher. Using a working jib and the inboard tracks on the cabin top would probably also give me a few degrees of pointing ability, but I haven't bothered.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Old 11-02-2010
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ive sailed the f24, and while she preforms well even in light winds i found a few quirks, and the owner conveyed some too....

keel has a tendency to get stuck with little aggravation.

as sd noted, she is kept on a lift--and even then unless tied perfectly--has a tendency to heel over on the lift in high winds.

cabin is not smallish, just small--while not the 31, if the design concept holds true i can imagine the same compromises are made.

the rudder has failed more than once, particularly where the top of the rudder fits into the cassette,

it is made of high tech materials(iirc lotta carbon fiber), not saying that is good or bad, but for the price of a new porsche i would think you could get a lot more boat, though it is fun to sail, esp w/the screecher....and the whole 'waterworld/hobie netting' thing.... lol.
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Old 11-02-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickMick View Post
ive sailed the f24, and while she preforms well even in light winds i found a few quirks, and the owner conveyed some too....

keel has a tendency to get stuck with little aggravation.

as sd noted, she is kept on a lift--and even then unless tied perfectly--has a tendency to heel over on the lift in high winds.

cabin is not smallish, just small--while not the 31, if the design concept holds true i can imagine the same compromises are made.

the rudder has failed more than once, particularly where the top of the rudder fits into the cassette,

it is made of high tech materials(iirc lotta carbon fiber), not saying that is good or bad, but for the price of a new porsche i would think you could get a lot more boat, though it is fun to sail, esp w/the screecher....and the whole 'waterworld/hobie netting' thing.... lol.
Performance for the dollar in a semi-cruising boat, like the F-24? Look at a Stiletto 27. No, not a cruising boat either, but for $12K to $15K you can get speeds in the high teens to 20 knots, and a cramped semi-camping expereince. Extremely easy to handle and very low maintenance. I miss my Stiletto, because I understood what she was and was not. Let me correct that; I miss my Stiletto on warm, fair, light-to-moderate wind days. Or windy when I was full of piss and vinegar and had good crew. She'd scream and scare people with any sense.

I think SD's evaluation of the trade-offs was right on point; all boats are compromises.
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Old 11-02-2010
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Stilettos are fun boats. The problem is that they're basically oversized beach cats with the interior space of a tube motel in each hull. My boat doesn't have a lot of space in the main hull, but it does have more than a Stiletto does in both hulls combined. Great value for the buck though, if you can find one in good shape.

All boats are compromises—you just have to find a boat that makes compromises you can live with.
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Telstar 28
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Old 11-02-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
Hey Dan,

Nice write up. SO, you consider your Telstar a cruising boat? ..

Brian

Brian,

I find amusing that you have to ask if a Telstar is a cruising boat. Probably that means that you don't imagine yourself cruising on a Telestar . I find it as amusing as Dan keeping saying that a Corsair is a racing boat, probably meaning that he cannot imagine himself cruising on one , even if there are guys that have circumnavigated in one.

I guess that only means that there are as many cruising boats as there are different sailors, from the ones that want a boat that looks like home, till the ones that chose to live in the most frugal way to have the pleasure of cruising and sailing fast.

Now, a Corsair is too Spartan for me, but If I could have a 35ft Dragonfly...I guess that I would not mind to live a very simple and frugal live, just to enjoy the sailing

I find the Telestar 28 a very interesting design and a good compromise between speed and comfort, but Dan, that does not mind that some guys would not prefer to trade some comfort for a lot more speed. Others would find the Telestar comfort inadequate and would gladly trade the speed for more comfort. That's why there is sailboats for every taste

Regards

Paulo
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Thanks all.

Anyone know anyone selling a telstar then???
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One more thing...

If one is buying a Corsair it needs to be a 2001 or earlier or pre 2001 if your looking for a American made boat?
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Old 11-03-2010
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Actually, Corsair continued to make boats in the US until 2007 or so, but once Farrier left, the QC went down quite a bit. The quality was higher when Ian Farrier was acting as a quality watchdog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clindsey View Post
If one is buying a Corsair it needs to be a 2001 or earlier or pre 2001 if your looking for a American made boat?
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Telstar 28
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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