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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Boat Buyers & Sellers Forum
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  #11  
Old 10-22-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
I have seen your boat around the Bay (we actually had a brief tacking duel up on the Chester River a year or so ago) and admire the condition that you had her in. You really have done a great job restoring her.

I saw your post when it went up and have wrestled with whether to respond. I felt that to be truthful would be hurtful, and there was no point in not being truthful. I know this only represents my opinion and there may be others who will disagree with me. As someone who is quite familiar with these boats and boats like them from this era, from my perspective, I would respectfully suggest that boats like yours are always tough sells, even in boom times. There is nothing more obsolete than an obsolete race boat, and there few race boats more obsolete than these pre-Fastnet IOR designs.

While the NY 36 was a great boat for its day, its day was very short lived. Boats like the Ranger 37, J-34 (IOR), Ericson 36(Holland), San Juan 34 and the Nicholson half tonners were real revelations when they showed up on the race course. Compared to what they replaced they were amazing upwind and pretty quick off the wind. And in that era, Bill Cook was certainly one of the better designers.

But compared to the boats which replaced them on the race course they were difficult to sail in a chop, were not very good in light going and were a real handful in a breeze, tender and reliant on rediculously large crews on the rail.

As more well rounded designs like the J-36, J-35, Santana 35 and their ilk hit the race course, these older designs really could not compete very easily. These old middle era IOR boats would have their odd good race, but it was very hard to turn in a consistent record. They were quick to lose speed and difficult to get back to speed. They took a knowlegable and skilled crew to really make them go.

While the great restoratation offsets this somewhat, Schock was always known for pretty mediocre build quality. I loved boats like the Schockwave 30 and Santana 35 but locally they were considered pretty fragile.

If I were trying to sell a boat like this one, I would have to ask myself who is my target market. In this case its not racers since these boats stopped being competitive (except at a very low club level) decades ago. (Olaf had the last successful NY36 campaign on the Chesapeake that I can remember and he stopped being competative in the late 1980's) Its not a newbie, because these boats have a very complicated rig, and deck hardware which would scare them away. Its not the preformance cruiser since they had a strange cockpit layout and stranger still interior layout (with the dinette tucked in under the cockpit), and they don't offer the forgiving sailing characteristics that performance cruisers look for. Other negatives are running backstays, the two-burner alcohol stove, and the volvo engine. To me, your Yachtworld text is spot on. You are looking for that one person who remembers these boats fondly and who can't afford a more upscale boat of that era. But oddly I would suggest that you are sort of competing with boats like the S2 9.1, J-30, Kirby 30, and perhaps Laser 28's which have similar interior size, and cockpit size, but are better race boats, better built and easier to sail short-handed.

And now to answer your question, I would suspect that you would have a hard time even getting $20K out of her. If you really want her out the door, I think your asking price needs to be down in that range. In the old days boats like these were so hard to sell that they were simply donated to the Naval Academy. The Naval Academy had quite a few NY 36's at one time.

Saying that saddens me knowing how much you must have put in the old girl. I am often asked about boats that someone wishes to buy and restore. My advice is always pick a boat that will be very desirable when you are done since it does not cost all that much more to restore a desireable design than a white-elephant. My second piece of advice is you must buy a less than perfectly desireable design, buy one that someone lovingly restored because it will be a bargain compared to buying a junker and trying to restore it yourself. Sadly, this case violates both of those recommendations. I wish it were otherwise.
Jeff, I've been reading your posts for a long time now and you are obviously extremely knowledgeable about most or all aspects of the subject of sailboats.

However, having said that and with all due respect, are there ANY boats that you hold in high regard? Other than Farrs of course. You seem to most commonly use terms like mediocre, less than desirable, difficult to handle, poor performer etc. to describe virtually anything you comment on.

My impression of your viewpoint, put in automotive terms, is that anything less than a Porsche or Benz is, to one degree or another, a poor choice.

Can you provide a list of what you regard as "good old boats" that most of us can afford and/or are worth spending time & money on?
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Old 10-22-2011
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If you're clever enough, it seems you can advertise your product within the forum.
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  #13  
Old 10-22-2011
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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
If you're clever enough, it seems you can advertise your product within the forum.
...or you can end up with your product being trashed, and lend additional support to the notion that boat brokers will not respond to inquiries for more information...


Last edited by jameswilson29; 10-22-2011 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 10-22-2011
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I fell in love with the model for several reasons. I like the open interior and engine access. She is very quick to weather and reaching. Downwind not so good. I like the little headsails and easily handled main. We got 13 knots out of her 120 off the wind. I put the new boat on the market, hope it sells and I will be very pleased to keep this boat. I received a PM about used sails but I cannot send PM'S so no I trashed them. The new Quantum tri-radial has a wine bottle on it.
My wife and i can sail the boat easily to weather in 20-22 knots with a single reef main and 100.
I over improved the boat because I never intended on selling it (looks like I was right)
The mainstream market wants: shallow draft (yuk) wheel steering (not in this cockpit) and a pretty interior. I want a vintage 911 turbo with fully adjustable suspension and air jacks. That is "cheap red"
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Old 10-22-2011
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SloopjonB, I just read your post and agree with 90% of its content. Racing PHRF the boat is a winner in the right hands. Local rating is 114.
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Old 10-22-2011
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A2

So you are in A2 with the J/29s, J-92s, Hobie 33s, Soverel 30s, Olson 30s, and the large racer/cruiser Beneteaus, Hunters, etc?
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Old 10-22-2011
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Originally Posted by Dbltime View Post
SloopjonB, I just read your post and agree with 90% of its content.
Can I assume that means you WON'T be firing yourself?
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Old 10-22-2011
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I think as a broker you are doing yourself a real disservice by not having recent pictures. Funny thing is I would fire my broker for doing that so perhaps so should you. Saying it has new headliner just does not do it, you should take current pictures, or take the old ones off. When I looked at the photos I was thinking wow he has a lot of good sails on an incomplete boat and I would offer $10,000 as it is a project boat. Apparently it is more complete than the photos look but most people looking at the ad will never know, as they will go on to the next ad. JMHO
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Old 10-22-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Jeff, I've been reading your posts for a long time now and you are obviously extremely knowledgeable about most or all aspects of the subject of sailboats.

However, having said that and with all due respect, are there ANY boats that you hold in high regard? Other than Farrs of course. You seem to most commonly use terms like mediocre, less than desirable, difficult to handle, poor performer etc. to describe virtually anything you comment on.

My impression of your viewpoint, put in automotive terms, is that anything less than a Porsche or Benz is, to one degree or another, a poor choice.

Can you provide a list of what you regard as "good old boats" that most of us can afford and/or are worth spending time & money on?
I would like to hear your comments on this too.
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  #20  
Old 10-22-2011
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Boo IOR extremes

I am going to jump in and defend Jeff H's posts, which I find very informative, whether you agree with them or not. As I read it, Jeff does not particulary like the extremes in yacht design obtained under the IOR rules. After the '79 Fastnet tragedy, many have spoken out against the extreme designs resulting from IOR, resulting in its demise.

Also, let's face it, there are some objectively crappy boats out there, just as there are with any designed and manufactured item.

Here is a thread where Jeff H recommends a number of boats (no Porsches or Benzes) for a first time buyer, and they sound like wise recommendations (so he could not be accused of criticizing everything):

First time sail boat buyer
CalebD and SloopJonB like this.

Last edited by jameswilson29; 10-22-2011 at 06:37 PM.
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