hardin ketch rotten bulkheads

[freebird273]

hi,
i am new to sailing and could use some help before i make a costly mistake. i am coming over from power boating to sailing. i think i have it narrowed down to either a 44 csy walk thru ketch or a 45 hardin ketch. everything i read tells me these vessels are tanks. i found a hardin with some issues, and i wonder if i should steer clear. its been on the hard for at least 8 years. all 4 aft bulkheads are rotten away, and it has all of its original rigging and sails from 1980. i wonder if this is a common problem with these boats and if anyone out there has had any experience making the repair. i am not afraid of work. i have extensive fiberglass experience under my belt. i just need to know if its a repair that can be made at all. also is is common for this boat to have water leaks of this nature.

i have a lot more questions but i will save them for a later thread. any and all help is much appreciated. i apologize if i sound novice, but i am and its something i am determined to learn. i love the water! even if it means floating on an old inner tube... but hopefully ill find the right sail boat for me! thanks again!!

Freebird273

[Faster]

That sounds like a lot of issues (re the Hardin) to take on, esp in today's 'buyers market' unless your primary object is a project. Even a low price (or even free) ultimately is often not a great deal by the time (and if) you make it all right.

Being comfortable with glass work is an advantage, of course, but the scale of this kind of project may well still be overwhelming - esp if there's an acceptable boat that doesn't need that kind of work on offer nearby

[freebird273]

thanks for the reply! do you have any suggestions for other ships of this caliber? i would imagine every builder out there has its own set of issues. i was wondering if this is a common issue with hardin.

thanks
dave

[smurphny]

Rotten bulkheads caused by leaking chainplates is a common issue. This and core rot are probably the two biggest defects to look for. If this boat has rotted bulkheads it likely has rotted deck core as well. I moved my chainplates outboard because, imo, there is no good way to keep water from eventually getting into wood where it can't get out. They just work too much to not eventually let water in. Gravity and water are against you! Anyway, it is a big job to replace bulkheads. If you can search my previous posts on this, I have described the way I fixed them on my boat which can save a lot of demolition.

[freebird273]

it sounds like i should look for a better maintained boat. also the owner just sent me more photos of the interior, and from the looks of it... shes going to be in need of a complete interior refit. this is already a hard sell to my family, and i dont want to turn them off before we even begin. well thanks for the advise... my search continues.

thanks again
dave

[Gary M]

For years I always bought a new boat. About 5 or 6 years ago I bought a used boat that was the cheapest on the market. Most expensive boat I have ever bought.
Lesson learned, there are no cheap boats, way better in my opinion to buy a very well maintained boat and enjoy it. Not a cheap boat and spend a lot of your time working on it.

Good Luck

[freebird273]

any recommendations for a comparable ship in size, comfort, and seaworthiness? i focused so much attention on researching hardin, i havent looked at much else. im still searching, but i also started looking at csy. any thoughts or advise. i know once i find the right boat, i will without a doubt hire a surveyor for the final inspection and or green / red light. i am trying to do as much homework before i layout a grand for someone to say stay away... better than a hundred grand mistake i guess, but still if i can save it, i would like to.

thanks
dave

[Faster]

Originally Posted by freebird273

...... this is already a hard sell to my family, and I don't want to turn them off before we even begin....

With respect if this is a hard sell for the family I sure wouldn't be trying it on at the $100K mark.. and especially not a costly project.

I wonder if you wouldn't be better off looking for a nice smaller boat that would be easy to re-sell if things worked out (or if they didn't). A Catalina 27, Ranger 26/29 or something like that - lots around and less than $10K as a starter.

If your family turns out keen and it becomes a good experience then you have a better foundation to move up, and more knowledge about what you really need/want in the next boat. Your operating costs will be contained on a smaller scale to start with. You NEED TO KNOW that a large outlay in terms of purchase, maintenance and moorage/insurance is not going to be a waste of money. This is especially true if your loved ones are not 100% behind the idea at this stage.

We 'outgrew' our first boat in 8 months... that's what happens when things work out. But by then we knew that we'd all enjoy this lifestyle. Had it gone the other way we'd have been 'out' rather little money and moved on to something more suitable.

[smurphny]

Sounds like you're doing the right kind of research. It's a difficult task to assess the relative values of boats because it all depends on your personal outlook. There are lots of variables: your skills, time, money to invest, whether your goal is to work on the boat or just sail away, the market for the boat and what it's worth, if you want a bluewater boat or coastal cruiser, if you plan on YC racing, additional equipment you may need or need to replace, whether you plan to go into debt to buy it, insurance costs, where to keep it, and input of others who are affected by the decision. There are a LOT of folks who seem to go in blind and get clobbered by the actual cost and amount of time required. Restoring a "classic glass" boat is always more costly than you figured. Use a 50% contingency figure added to your best guess. Also remember that as soon as you start a five year reno. plan, stuff (charts, safety gear, outmoded electronics, batteries, rigging parts, liferaft, painting, etc) will need replacing AGAIN before you know it. The salt water environment is hard on stuff. I just saw an Alberg 37 for sale at a remarkably low price. If it wasn't across the country I'd be looking at it as a new project.

[freebird273]

the hard sell isnt the money... its the time spent away from home. i grew up on long island sound and have been a power boater all my life. i am very familiar with all the cost associated with boating in and off season. im also very familiar with on board mechanics with power boating. i own a rv dealership in connecticut so the house side of things should be easy for me as well. if someone were to ask me what is the best motorhome for the buck i would have a few qualifying questions to point them in the right direction.

im looking for a bluewater ship for sure. most of my sailing to start out will be block island, marthas vineyard, newport, long island and all of the surrouing areas within a days sail. at some point sooner than later and this is that hard sell area... i would like to take a month or two and sail to the caribbean. i plan on living on the boat, and would like to find a boat as big as i can and also still be able to single hand, or at least be able to handle the ship with two people. my family is worried about living in such a small area for that amount of time. i may fly them home or fly them where ever i end up sailing to just so i can spend more time on the water.

im one of those boaters that the two best days of a boat owners life doesnt apply to. im not looking to go racing, but i wouldnt mind watching from the sidelines. i am searcing for a ship that eventually could make an atlantic or pacific crossing. i feel like everything i heard about hardin being a tank is the sort of ship i should be looking for... you tell me. im also not afraid of some hands on work. light restoration, interior mods, upgrades im ok with. i think a complete refit is out of the question for me. that sounds like more time fixing than boating, and that doesnt sound fun.

also being the business im in, we have a lot of groups. people that go out together on trips. is it the same for sailboaters? i feel like there is safety in numbers... especially making a trip to the caribbean or across the atlantic.

thanks
dave

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