Comparing boats - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Boat Buyers & Sellers Forum
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-16-2013
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Halifax, NS, Canada
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
mgb69 is on a distinguished road
Comparing boats

I'm looking at boats available on the used market. Right now I'm just trying to get a feel for values and types of boats with the idea that I'll trade up in the next year or 2.
Last year I bought a Mirage 24. Loved sailing for the summer but I'd like something I can stand up inside, and something I can take the kids for an overnight - so it appears to be an acute case of 2ft itis. Actually 4ttitis in my case.

I'm thinking I'd like to get into a 29ft - maybe a C&C 29 or something similar. Enough space, but not so big as to make single handing or maintenance too much (I know - its all relative).

My problem. How to compare boats online without having access (not that many for sale locally - Halifax)

I've read a little bit about PRHF handicapping - is that a reasonable way to get a handle on how fast a boat will likely be?

Any thoughts?

Mark
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 01-16-2013
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,390
Thanks: 63
Thanked 160 Times in 157 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Re: Comparing boats

If you can find any particular boat's PHRF numbers it's useful as a ball park 'relative' speed comparitor. The higher the number the slower the boat. In the 30 foot range a fast boat will rate 100 or less, a slow boat 220 or more I'd guess. However not all designs are raced and data is not always available.

Word of mouth, forum discussions, Yachtworld.com and other listings with pictures and comparative pricing, and the site sailboatdata.com are all useful references. There are also several good reference books out there but tough to find.

Roger Marshall's 'Guide to Production Sailboats', 'A Field guide to Sailboats', Practical Sailor's multi volume Sailboat review compilations are all examples of such references. You can get layouts, sailplans, underbody profiles, lots of generic comparison points as you look around. Most of these books are out of print, of course, but used bookstores abound.

I'd think that NS has plenty of C&Cs, CSs, Hughes, Aloha, Ontario - all the 'good' Canadian builders well represented, and probably more examples from East coast US builders than BC would have... Importing is not difficult so don't discount Maine as a supply point....
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 01-16-2013
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Halifax, NS, Canada
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
mgb69 is on a distinguished road
Comparing boats

Thx for the thoughts.
I've been looking at the north eastern US - prices seem much lower and not that far away - I just want to have a good handle on what I'm looking for before I start kicking tires.

Mark
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 01-16-2013
jameswilson29's Avatar
Senior Smart Aleck
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 1,852
Thanks: 18
Thanked 52 Times in 47 Posts
Rep Power: 5
jameswilson29 is on a distinguished road
Re: Comparing boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgb69 View Post

My problem. How to compare boats online without having access (not that many for sale locally - Halifax)
Look for boats in your geographic area. Take your time and enjoy researching different boats. Search "[boat make size] sailboat reviews" on google. There are plenty of online reviews and resources your will discover in the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgb69 View Post
I've read a little bit about PRHF handicapping - is that a reasonable way to get a handle on how fast a boat will likely be?
Absolutely, PHRF is the best objective indication readily available of relative crewed speed potential for racing.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 01-16-2013
chucklesR's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pasadena Md - Magothy side
Posts: 5,891
Thanks: 9
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 9
chucklesR is a jewel in the rough chucklesR is a jewel in the rough chucklesR is a jewel in the rough
Re: Comparing boats

Quote:
Absolutely, PHRF is the best objective indication readily available of relative crewed speed potential for racing
Relative to the area in which it's posted.

A New England rating for a XXX boat should not be compared to a Chesapeake rating for a YYY boat.
Winds vary - NE ratings for my boat are much lower than the Ches rating (in light winds my boat is a dog).
__________________
Lessons learned are opportunities earned.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 01-16-2013
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,390
Thanks: 63
Thanked 160 Times in 157 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Re: Comparing boats

Ratings do vary regionally, but generally if you find a listing it will be for a particular region.. Using that database as a comparison will be valid enough. But there's lots of boats that 'rate' the same but don't necessarily perform similarly on the course - plenty of variables there.
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 01-17-2013
BarryL's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,536
Thanks: 3
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 11
BarryL is on a distinguished road
Re: Comparing boats

Hey,

IMHO you should decide on a budget, a list of requirements, and a list of 'nice to haves.' Then go on yachtworld and look at all the boats that meet your needs. Try to visit as many boats as possible. Ideally, you will find a good broker and worth with him to really nail down what you want. And then take your time and look at lots of boats.

For example, for my second boat (moving up from a 22' Catalina) I required:
-budget up to $17.5K
-Modern design from 1980 an up
-Sloop rig (only two sails, relatively easy to sail, etc.)
-wheels steering
-Inboard diesel engine
-Pressure hot and cold water
-real marine head with holding tank
-berths for five
-sailable condition now

Nice to haves were:
-Self tailing winches
-decent electronics including autopilot
-dodger

I looked at a lot of boats and decided that the Catalina 30 or S2 9.2A where my first choices. I had a hard time finding a Catalina 30 for my price. I found a number of S2 boats, but all were in poor condition. While looking at one particular boat, the broker (who was excellent) suggested I look at a Newport 28 that they were selling. Long story short, the boat was perfect for me and I ended up buying it (for $15,000) and enjoyed it for 3 seasons (until the urge for a bigger boat hit).

Regarding speed and sailing performance, this is a little simplistic, but I will state that similar boats have similar sailing characteristics. For example, moderate displacement, deep draft fin keel sloop boats in the 30' range will have similar performance. This includes Catalina 30, O'day 30, C&C 30, Tartan 30, Pearson 30, etc. Some may have better PHRF number, and will indeed be faster, but the differences are really insignificant. For example, if you consider a 'fast' 30' boat with a PHRF of 150 to a 'slow' 30' with a PHRF of 200, for a 30 mile trip the fast boat arrive less than 30 minutes ahead of the slow boat. Yes, that's much faster, but 30 minutes for 5 hours isn't really very much.

A 30' full keel boat ketch will have totally different performance than the sloops, and a lightweight planing boat will be much faster, but, for the most part, similar boats have similar performance.

Barry
__________________
Barry Lenoble
Day To Remember, 1986 O'day 35 For Sale
Deep Blue C, 2002 C&C 110 For Sail
Mt. Sinai, NY

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by BarryL; 01-17-2013 at 10:04 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 01-17-2013
bljones's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Coast Ontario
Posts: 8,066
Thanks: 31
Thanked 68 Times in 61 Posts
Rep Power: 7
bljones has a spectacular aura about bljones has a spectacular aura about
Re: Comparing boats

Mark, I don't know if you've found this site...
Sailboats in Canada - 27' to 30' models
but it's a good place to get quick thumbnail info on some Canadian-made boats, including PHRF ratings.
__________________
It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 01-18-2013
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Halifax, NS, Canada
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
mgb69 is on a distinguished road
Comparing boats

Thanks for all the feedback.
Bjones -I have seen the Canadian Sailboat site before - that was part of what had me wondering if the PHRF numbers were useful for comparison -
But thank Barry for putting actual times on the PHRF ratings - gives a real world ref.
I've also taken the suggestions to google reviews etc. and have been able to get a better handle on the boats. Now I'll have to look at some in person.

Now I have a new problem. In the process of sifting through boat listings and stats etc - I found one of the boats I like at a fantastic price.
If it was close I'd be looking at it now - but it's 1000miles away in NY!
Shipping it back would be quite expensive I'm guessing (unless its on a functional trailer). And I'm leery about sailing it back (in the spring) when I will not have had any real experience with the boat.
I might be searching for a food surveyor in Long Island area.
My plan was looking at 18mo down the road - but I'd do it now if the boat is right.

Mark
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 01-18-2013
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Halifax, NS, Canada
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
mgb69 is on a distinguished road
Comparing boats

Good surveyor!!!! Not Food
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Interesting Comment comparing two boats davidpm Boat Review and Purchase Forum 3 10-09-2012 07:57 AM
Comparing 3 boats I have found... cb32863 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 1 08-04-2010 02:18 PM
Comparing two boats ptsbug General Discussion (sailing related) 0 09-10-2009 11:28 AM
Any Spreadsheets for Comparing Boats ? Deckerd Boat Review and Purchase Forum 6 09-29-2007 02:41 AM
Comparing boats 37''-38'' gstraub Boat Review and Purchase Forum 5 01-15-2003 11:30 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:01 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012