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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Boat Buyers & Sellers Forum
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  #11  
Old 05-07-2013
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Re: Am I out of line on my boat offer?

It's a buyers market.
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  #12  
Old 05-07-2013
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Re: Am I out of line on my boat offer?

To a seller, cash says the buyer can actually close the deal. Buyers that need financing are riskier, even if pre-qualified. The finance company may not like the boat as collateral.

The OP clearly did the right thing by walking away from this one. There are clearly established norms and a seller balking at a survey is a non-starter. I can live with a seller making it clear they will not address the price for anything in the survey. Then the buyer can decide, if they want to proceed on that basis, as your only remedy is to walk away. I still wouldn't agree to that, but at least there isn't an effort to hide anything.
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  #13  
Old 05-07-2013
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Re: Am I out of line on my boat offer?

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Originally Posted by LakePirate View Post
You are right in making an offer of what ever you think the boat is worth to you. One thing I don't understand is when buyers say I'm paying cash, can I get it lowered? Unless the seller is carrying a note for the buyer isn't it all cash to him?
Not necessarily. If there is a bank loan involved, the loan could be rejected/never go through. Now the seller has taken the boat off the market, and possibly turned down other offers (or at least turned away other prospective buyers), and suddenly he is stuck having to re-list and explain why it didn't sell. I'm leery of any boats that come back on the market; there are SO many reasons why a buyer might reject, and most of the time the buyer is rejecting because there's something wrong with the boat. As Chuck said, it's a buyer's market, so I've always moved on, and I suspect a lot of other prospective buyers would do the same. So, now the seller is stuck with a boat that can't sell for as much as he wanted, and its through no fault of his own, and not due to any problems with the boat. Someone walking up and saying "I'll pay cash" means they have the money in hand (or in their bank account), and those kinds of issues can be avoided. As the seller, you have to decide whether or not the prospect of a simple, smooth transaction is worth a cut in price.
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Old 05-07-2013
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My attitude, both as a seller and as a buyer, is that the offer is the buyer's problem. If I had an offer but the buyer wasn't sure if they had the cash, then I would leave the boat on the market until the deal was concluded. It's not done until I have the cash in hand. I would add "Deal pending" to my listing, but I would not take it off the market.

Besides that, I think it's odd that someone would make an offer without knowing they can fulfill their end of the deal. I always knew what I could spend before making any offer ... On anything, boat, house, car.
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Old 05-07-2013
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Re: Am I out of line on my boat offer?

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Originally Posted by agarcia View Post
..... I came back after 15 mins of what the heck and said if the survey to be done showed structural issues that he would be willing to adjust the price. He said why do I need to do a survey for this amount of money and he knows the boat well enough and a survey is someone's opinion .... Was either request/offers out of line?
Other responders are all assuming the seller refused the survey requirement, but your comments aren't so clear to me. obviously if a seller objects to a sale subject to survey, walk away (regardless of price IMHO...). But it sounds as if you were trying to get the seller to commit a price adjustable based on the survey results. If you looked for a seller commitment here, you are being un-reasonable, as a seller I would not so commit ...in advance.

Now if the survey determines expensive to repair defects, then you have the choice to cancel the old sale and attempt to negotiate a new one, which negotiation the seller may or may not agree to participate in. But you cannot expect him to commit to this negotiation beforehand...the reality of life, is that he will ...
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Old 05-07-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
But it sounds as if you were trying to get the seller to commit a price adjustable based on the survey results. If you looked for a seller commitment here, you are being un-reasonable, as a seller I would not so commit ...in advance.

Now if the survey determines expensive to repair defects, then you have the choice to cancel the old sale and attempt to negotiate a new one, which negotiation the seller may or may not agree to participate in. But you cannot expect him to commit to this negotiation beforehand...the reality of life, is that he will ...
I would have taken "maybe" as an answer to being flexible on the price adjustment . I don't think it was reasonable to get a survey and go nowhere. Even I could tell the major repair he did himself to the cockpit sole looked like a wrinkled bandaid with a lot of messy caulking. I was looking for a sign of a little bit of flexibility to go forward.
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Old 05-07-2013
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Re: Am I out of line on my boat offer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by agarcia View Post
Even I could tell the major repair he did himself to the cockpit sole looked like a wrinkled bandaid with a lot of messy caulking.
Then you should have included an adjustment for that in the initial offer. A survey is not a tool for negotiating things that you already knew about BEFORE the survey was done. It is a tool for finding out if there is anything significant that you missed, and then possibly re-negotiating based on that.

I have to agree that looking for the seller to commit to a re-negotiation after the survey is a mistake. As a seller, I certainly wouldn't. I would have told you, "I'm not hiding anything, so I don't believe the survey is going to reveal anything to negotiate about."

Now, if that turns out not to be true, then the game changes. But you really can't expect the seller to agree ahead of time to a post-survey reduction in the price.
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Old 05-07-2013
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Re: Am I out of line on my boat offer?

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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
Then you should have included an adjustment for that in the initial offer. A survey is not a tool for negotiating things that you already knew about BEFORE the survey was done. It is a tool for finding out if there is anything significant that you missed, and then possibly re-negotiating based on that.

I have to agree that looking for the seller to commit to a re-negotiation after the survey is a mistake. As a seller, I certainly wouldn't. I would have told you, "I'm not hiding anything, so I don't believe the survey is going to reveal anything to negotiate about."

Now, if that turns out not to be true, then the game changes. But you really can't expect the seller to agree ahead of time to a post-survey reduction in the price.
From my understanding of what the OP has said, the issue wasn't even that the seller was unwilling to adjust the price based on the survey findings, it was that a) the seller thought that a survey was unnecessary for a boat of that price, b) the seller claimed that he knew the boat well enough, and c) the survey was just someone's opinion. Any one of those three is enough to raise a red flag, all three suggest (to me at least) that the seller knows the boat isn't worth what he's asking.

And on top of that, expecting the buyer to pay the broker's fee is ridiculous. I would want no part of this one.
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Re: Am I out of line on my boat offer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
My attitude, both as a seller and as a buyer, is that the offer is the buyer's problem. If I had an offer but the buyer wasn't sure if they had the cash, then I would leave the boat on the market until the deal was concluded. It's not done until I have the cash in hand. I would add "Deal pending" to my listing, but I would not take it off the market.

Besides that, I think it's odd that someone would make an offer without knowing they can fulfill their end of the deal. I always knew what I could spend before making any offer ... On anything, boat, house, car.
I get the point, but as a buyer, I would not be willing to spend money on a survey, if you had the right to sell it to someone else in the meantime. If you're just saying you would keep the listing alive, I agree with that and find that is the most common practice. Call on a boat that is in survey, however, and the owner/broker should not take an offer.
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Old 05-07-2013
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Re: Am I out of line on my boat offer?

Don, I agree with most of what you said. But I've been aboard a few boats where I thought "that looks pretty bad" but still been tempted to make an offer. I know in my head that the repair looks like a third grader did it, and that I can do it better, and I've already priced that in. What I haven't priced in is if additional work is needed that only a survey can reveal. For example, if the seller's repair job was inadequate and there is additional damage in the surrounding area, or in an area that is hidden from my easy view.
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