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  #61  
Old 06-22-2013
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Re: Initial Offer Question

The first question is, do I really want to own a boat, or do I just like the idea of owning a boat? I don't see where you've actually answered that question yet. Especially to yourself. And a cost/benefit analysis won't really give you the answer. Because that choice is actually more an emotional one, than a pragmatic one (if the boat is to be anything more than a toy).

Is owning a boat a passion that must be sated, or a desire that would be nice to fill? Is owning a boat a need for happiness, or just an item on a bucket list of things that are suppose to make you happy?

Once you decide, if you do, that you really want to own a boat, you'll find a way to buy one ... not reasons not to.
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  #62  
Old 06-22-2013
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Re: Initial Offer Question

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Originally Posted by PBzeer View Post
Once you decide, if you do, that you really want to own a boat, you'll find a way to buy one ... not reasons not to.
This.
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  #63  
Old 06-22-2013
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Re: Initial Offer Question

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Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
...... We may have a motivated seller. But in the end, it's are we willing to commit to the cost of ownership? that will determine if we will become boat owners.......
Some have reacted pretty harshly to this statement, which I do not intend to do.

I think it is very wise to detail a realistic cost of ownership and determine if it fits within one's budget.

However, I've never known anyone to use it to determine whether they are willing to commit to the cost of ownership at all. That's always long committed by this stage and they're only determining how much cost they can endure and whether a particular boat is within reach.

There does seem to be some sign of waffling. Maybe rent for a season and find out?
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  #64  
Old 06-22-2013
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Re: Initial Offer Question

To be clear, nothing I've said here was intended to convey I'm looking for reasons not to buy a boat. As questions arise from members, I answer them. There was never any intention of looking to find reasons not to buy.

This is the first time I am actually beginning the process of finding a boat to buy because it's the first time I've been financially able to do it. Thus my initial question about making an offer. I would never have asked that question if I wasn't serious about buying a boat AND have the ability to do so.

Nothing in the world gives me the feeling I get when sailing. If you don't know the feeling, I can't explain it. I can only say it makes me feel alive and always has, since my first sail 42 years ago. Maybe it's in the blood.

Before I began this thread I was clueless how much asking price vs. selling price vs. lender valuation can vary. It's all over the place. And unless you're a broker, having the knowledge and skills to determine the actual value of a boat just by looking at is rare. But I now have some tools and knowledge to walk into this with.

I thank you all who have helped me get to where I am now, for this part of the boat buying process. I feel I at least have enough information to help me bring a reasonable offer to the table. I'm hoping we can agree on a boat to buy this season. If it was just me, it would be easy. But when there's two in the decision making process...
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Old 06-22-2013
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Re: Initial Offer Question

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Some have reacted pretty harshly to this statement, which I do not intend to do.

I think it is very wise to detail a realistic cost of ownership and determine if it fits within one's budget.

However, I've never known anyone to use it to determine whether they are willing to commit to the cost of ownership at all. That's always long committed by this stage and they're only determining how much cost they can endure and whether a particular boat is within reach.

There does seem to be some sign of waffling. Maybe rent for a season and find out?
I should have followed that up with, "Yes, we are willing to commit to the cost so long as it fits within the budget." Buying a dream boat that will strain the finances? No. I won't do that. Making compromises so the costs don't exceed the budget? Absolutely.
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Re: Initial Offer Question

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Sailing - So it has to be able to handle the weather and keep two people reasonably comfortable. Anyone who knows the Great Lakes knows violent storms can jump on top of you quickly. So I don't want to be fearing our little boat will be broken apart when we get caught up in that. And if we travel, we will.
That boat is offshore capable & will hold up better than you will.
If you can get this girl for 35-40K & she's been kept up, you won't go wrong.
For that price just be sure she's been repowered recently so you don't have to dump another 10K into her.
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  #67  
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Re: Initial Offer Question

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That boat is offshore capable & will hold up better than you will.
If you can get this girl for 35-40K & she's been kept up, you won't go wrong.
For that price just be sure she's been repowered recently so you don't have to dump another 10K into her.
If you're talking about the Sabre 34, she has the original engine. And the engine hours stated is 663. Seems a bit light. Most of the boats we've seen in our price range have the original engine. Any offer we make will factor that in.
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Old 06-22-2013
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Re: Initial Offer Question

Wow guys, go easy on the poor woman.

It's easy to forget that when you're new to this there's a lot to get your head around.

It throws a lot of new sailors that there's really no such thing as "book value" for boats. Take your car to any three car dealers and the actual appraised value will usually be within $500 (extracting that number from the dealer is another conversation). But with boats NADA is different from BoatUS and both may be different from what the surveyor and the broker say a boat is worth.

There simply aren't enough boats bought and sold to get that kind of granularity. Condition varies widely, equipment is all over the place and prices vary from region to region. Really popular boats are sold in the thousands, cars are sold in the millions.

Is $35K a good price for a particular Sabre 34?

I'd say "good" could easily swing $2,500 in either direction depending how much you or I value the installed equipment.
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Old 06-22-2013
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Re: Initial Offer Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMcGee View Post
Wow guys, go easy on the poor woman.

It's easy to forget that when you're new to this there's a lot to get your head around.

It throws a lot of new sailors that there's really is no such thing as "book value" for boats. Take your car to any three car dealers and the actual appraised value will usually be within $500 (extracting that number from the dealer is another conversation). But with boats NADA is different from BoatUS and both may be different from what the surveyor and the broker say a boat is worth.

There simply aren't enough boats bought and sold to get that kind of granularity. Condition varies widely, equipment is all over the place and prices vary from region to region. Really popular boats are sold in the thousands, cars are sold in the millions.

Is $35K a good price for a particular Sabre 34?

I'd say "good" could easily swing $2,500 in either direction depending how much you or I value the installed equipment.
Actually the price is a little high, compared to several others listed on various sites, but not way out of line. I have not looked at any of them in person, so I cannot say why there are such large differences, but I would have to guess it is that the owner wants to get as much as he can, even in the current market. I know that there are many, and I mean a ton, of 35-45 foot boats out there in the $20,000.00 to $50,000.00 range, a huge difference in the price, and a lot has to do with where you are in the country.

I would say that ragging on her about not buying the first boat she looks at, or taking time to decide on which ones she wants to buy is just mean. I know a lot of people who take time to come around to a decision and then move on the buy. I myself do a lot of research, spend a lot of time looking at what I want to buy, and then I get out my wallet or whatever the case may need to be, and I buy. I may look at a lot of examples of the thing I want to buy, but once I have made up my mind I want something, I always get it.

Now maybe some of you can plunk down $50k without blinking, and if you can that is great, I applaud you for your ability to earn and save, but I cannot right now, not without taking careful consideration of my purchase. If I plunk down the $50k am I going to have to re-plunk with another $50k in repairs and upgrades to get it where I want to be? I think I would rather not do it that way. I would prefer to do it a better way, looking carefully and making a very considered choice, and not spend double my money.
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  #70  
Old 06-22-2013
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Re: Initial Offer Question

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Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
I should have followed that up with, "Yes, we are willing to commit to the cost so long as it fits within the budget." Buying a dream boat that will strain the finances? No. I won't do that. Making compromises so the costs don't exceed the budget? Absolutely.
Good enough for me! Good luck finding the right boat.

Your other post on needing two of you to agree made me think of a couple we know. This is not intended to apply to you (unless you say it does).

She has been a sailor her entire life. Her new 'significant other' (as boyfriend sounds odd in your 50s), has been a powerboater his entire life. She really wants to get a sailboat (she sold hers after a divorce several years ago) and for him to want one too. We took them away for a weekend earlier this month, with her hoping he would fall in love with sailing.

Now he's a nice guy, but it didn't take much to know it just ain't going to happen. He played along and was good company, but the sailing does nothing for him. I fear, if she doesn't let up, this could become a problem.

In any event, it does take two to tango, whatever your set of circumstances may be.
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