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  #81  
Old 07-26-2013
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Re: Full Keel

Trekka in which John Guzwell circumnavigated in the 1950's (at the time the smallest boat to circumnavigate) was a fin keel spade rudder design by Jack Laurent Giles. Both before, and not least, since thousands of spade rudders have circumnavigated, and I honestly believe Colin Archer and other naval architects of yore would have used spade rudders had the technology at the time permitted it.

I love old boats, but the bad copies of Colin Archer boats in GRP, Steel etc make me cringe especially when they're heavier than the originals.

/Joms


Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Every boat I've owned has had a spade, on shafts or on pintles & gudgeons - I've never had a lick of trouble with any of them.

The boats I've sailed with attached rudders were all much harder to steer than the spades. I've never sailed a boat with a skeg hung rudder.

I do know that I prefer a tiller and I absolutely HATE hydraulic steering - lifeless & insensitive as well as prone to leaks. I can't imagine why anyone would install it if they had ANY other option.

A spade with a tiller is stone axe technology - just what you want for steering a boat IMHO.
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  #82  
Old 07-26-2013
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Re: Full Keel

"also most polyester hulls do not get the pox...better known as blisters."

That's not the way I see it. Vinylester replaced polyester resin to avoid getting the blisters. Polyester resin was the problem. Today some builders will use polyester resin above the DWL and Vinylester resin below to avoid blisters. But a well built boat today will be all vinylester resin. It's more expensive than polyester resin and stronger. There are also today "modified polyester" resins that are far better than the old straight polyester resins. They are also cheaper than viylester resins. You can do a skin coat on a hull with vinylester resin then switch to modified polyester resin to save money but there is some labor involved bwteen the two coats. Vinylester resin is the first choice if you want to avoid the cost of epoxy resin.

I didn't want to get this response wrong. I felt the original post was quite misleading. I called Wtsrely Marine in Costa Mesa, one of if not the very best yard on the west coast and I talked to Steve, one of the owners. Westerly has built several of my boats. If this is not good enough for you I suggest calling a true expert on resins, Dennis at REVCHEM.
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  #83  
Old 07-26-2013
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Re: Full Keel

The other nice thing about vinylester/glass matrix is that is more impact resistent and does not get a brittle or prone to fatigue as polyester.

Based on research that I have read, blister problems were at their worst starting in the early 1970s and dropping off considerably by the end of the 1980's. My understanding of the problem was a manufacturing process change and reformulation that occurred due to the oil embargos of the 1970's. The earlier resins were less prone to blistering, but they were far more brittle and prone to fatigue, so pick your poison.

Jeff
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  #84  
Old 07-26-2013
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Re: Full Keel

Quote:
Originally Posted by tidewaterv View Post
any cruising boat that has hull that is laid up glass WITHOUT a core material like balsa core or similar is a real safe start in a search .many early hulls before 1973 were made of different glass than those later.early were polyester &much harder & stronger ....also most polyester hulls do not get the pox...better known as blisters...almost any hull by c&c,hughes_canada..hinterholler,belleville marine made before 1973 should be considered.manufacturers changed because of cost but mostly because of molds catching fire..very flamable materiels before they harden...most people are not aware of these changes...but smart buyer s in the know will take this into consideration..
Lots of incorrect and/or bad info in that post. C&C's have had balsa hulls on many models practically back to their inception - they were a leader in that kind of build.

The glass didn't change much until the 80's - old boats are all mat and roving. Lyasil (unidirectional) glass was pretty high tech in the mid 70's. IIRC it was the 80's before uncrimped (bi-axial) fabric was developed.

The boats with pox are almost universally polyester resin. Vinylester was a response to pox which is pretty well understood to have been caused by resin reformulations after the oil embargoes (along with some questionable laminating practices)

You actually don't want an overly hard resin - it's brittle. That's one of the big advantages to epoxy - it remains quite flexible after it's cured. Polyester resin is like rock candy when it's cured which means no "toughness". Let some pure poly resin cure and drop it on cement - you'll see (wear glasses)
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  #85  
Old 07-28-2013
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Re: Full Keel

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
The boats with pox are almost universally polyester resin. Vinylester was a response to pox which is pretty well understood to have been caused by resin reformulations after the oil embargoes (along with some questionable laminating practices)
Beware... the dreaded Polyestermite!!
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  #86  
Old 08-11-2013
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Re: Full Keel

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
"Overweight tanks"?

I agree with you and I chuckle when I think back to 1974 when a noted yacht designer writing an article in YACHTING wrote that the Valiant was "too light to be considered a serious offshore boat".

Early this year (stop me if I told you this already) we raced my buddie's Baba 35, pilot house model, in the Race Your House race in Seattle. It's a race for only liveaboards. It was a very varied fleet with Catalinas, Hallberg Rassy's Ingrids, Cape George cutters and other cruising type boats. We had a good breeze with gusts up over 20 knots at times. We got second in class and sailed boat for boat upwind and down with many fin keel boats and did manage to beat a lot of them boat for boat. It was a testimony to what a good, full keel boat could do. We did not point as well as the fin keelers but we only gave up about 4 degrees of AWA to them. It was a kick in the ass to watch the faces of the competitors as we hung in there with them. "What are yoiu doing here?"

I try not to generalize about boat types. Some of my very best designs are the Tashiba series 31, 36 and 40 full keel boats. They can surprise you with their performance. The tall rig Baba/ Tashiba 40 AIRLOOM is a regular race winner on Puget Sound.
Bob,
Interesting that I ran across this post. I have owned IPs for 25 years but sold my IP420 last year. I have always been drawn to your brilliant designs and decided to 'jump ship' and appease my longing for the double ender 'traditional' full of teak beauties. I have narrowed that search down to a Baba PH 35 and a Tashiba 36. I've sailed neither. My sailing latitudes will be southerly, so I'm not sure of the utility of the PH versus just a full canvas enclosure. I love the layout of the Baba PH 35, albeit I do worry about a window 'blowout' in heavy weather. A friend of mine owns a Tashiba 36. Gorgeous! Bluewaterboats.org touts the Tashiba 36 as stiff, fast, and close-winded. Are they more so than the Baba's? I can imagine you are more than tired of answering these types of comparison questions, but I plan for this to be my last sailboat purchase and I would value whatever you would like to share. Your work is amazing, Bob....THANK YOU for the countless hours I've enjoyed simply admiring your sailboats.

Most sincerely,
Paula
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  #87  
Old 08-11-2013
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Re: Full Keel

Paula:
Many thanks for the kind words.
Without a doubt the Tashiba 36 is the better boat. They may look like the Baba 35 and the Baba 30 but they are far more like the Baba 40 in hull form. They are better designs (I learned as I went along) and they have superior performance. While the Baba 35 sails well, the Tashiba 36 sails great. It's a sleeper. If you were here in the office with me I could easily point out the hull shape differences. Kind of hard on a web site.

I think you should be patient and find a Tashiba 36.

Bob P.
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  #88  
Old 08-12-2013
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Re: Full Keel

I was thrilled to get your reply, Bob. Thank you so very much. The Tashiba it is! Have a wonderful week!

Grateful,
Paula
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Old 08-12-2013
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Re: Full Keel

Blu:
Not sure where you are but if you in the PNW we have the Perry Rendezvous at Port Ludlow this weekend. We usually get around 50 boats and it's a good time for someone to compare boats. I'll be there but I'll be relaxing and trying not to work.

You can Google Perry Rendezvous 2013 and find out all about it.
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  #90  
Old 08-13-2013
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Re: Full Keel

Hey, Bob. I had read about the rendezvous in the thread and sure wish that was a possibility for me. I really would enjoy that! But Georgia is a bit far. I'm sure there will be many beautiful boats present, I'm jealous. Have a wonderful time and thank you!

Paula
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