SailNet Community

SailNet Community (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/)
-   Boat Review and Purchase Forum (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/)
-   -   Sea Trial Only After Sales Contract? (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/101317-sea-trial-only-after-sales-contract.html)

JulieMor 07-12-2013 07:38 PM

Sea Trial Only After Sales Contract?
 
Our broker just called and said he's about to list a boat that might interest us. We scheduled a time to see it next week and asked about taking it out for sea trial. He said that's usually done only after a sales contract has been drawn up. I was unaware that was standard practice.

I understand taking a boat out on the water isn't the same as taking a car for a test drive. On the other hand, making an offer on a boat that you have no idea how it handles takes away a valuable piece of information for the buyer and could deny the seller a better offer if it's a good performer and in good shape.

So if we get to writing up the sales contract, I guess we stipulate the sea trial first? Or does a potential buyer usually not have that power? Like, "I don't like the way it handles. The deal is off." kind of thing.

bobperry 07-12-2013 07:48 PM

Re: Sea Trial Only After Sales Contract?
 
Typically the sale is "completed" pending sea trial and survey. After sea trial and survey the buyer has the right to come back and renegotiate the sale price. This can be critical if major problems are discovered during the survey. But I don;t think I have ever seen a sale broen due to sea trials. For one this the buyer is psychologically committed to the boat at that stage. And most buyers ( sorry) don't know boats well enough to even know there is a serious handling issue. On top of that, if you need a breeze for the sea trials you'll get 4 knots. If you want to see how the boat sais in lght air you'll get 28 knots.

But you put the deal together first, then survey, then sea trial.

ctl411 07-12-2013 07:48 PM

Re: Sea Trial Only After Sales Contract?
 
Yes need a accepted offer to take a ride. Yes thought it was a pain also. Yes any old reason gets you out of the deal but does tie up your deposit for a few days. They do this to keep keel kickers from taking free rides.

RobGallagher 07-12-2013 07:52 PM

Re: Sea Trial Only After Sales Contract?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JulieMor (Post 1058332)
Our broker just called and said he's about to list a boat that might interest us. We scheduled a time to see it next week and asked about taking it out for sea trial. He said that's usually done only after a sales contract has been drawn up. I was unaware that was standard practice.

I understand taking a boat out on the water isn't the same as taking a car for a test drive. On the other hand, making an offer on a boat that you have no idea how it handles takes away a valuable piece of information for the buyer and could deny the seller a better offer if it's a good performer and in good shape.

So if we get to writing up the sales contract, I guess we stipulate the sea trial first? Or does a potential buyer usually not have that power? Like, "I don't like the way it handles. The deal is off." kind of thing.

The broker is correct, sort of.

The thing is, you are buying a sailboat, not a car. If you want to know how a certain boat handles, charter one, crew on one, read up on that model, etc. I understand that this may sound strange but that is how it works.

It would take the better part of a day to arrange a "test sail" and in reality you won't find the variety of wind and sea conditions to find out how it really behaves on all points of sail in all conditions. So a "test sail" is just a waste of everyones time. Well, except yours because you get to go for a free ride on someone elses boat.

Now I said sort of because you are the one with the money. There is no reason the broker cannot contact the seller and at least talk to him about the option for you to get a ride.

The broker really has no idea you are serious until you give him a 10% deposit and set up a survey.

That being said, most "test sails" are done as the last part of the survey with the surveyor and broker on board.

If you are really not sure how a boat will "handle" you should charter one for at least a day or two. You will gain a wealth of knowledge and find things you love about the boat, and possibly hate. Even things that might seem silly as getting in and out of a berth, hand holds, the location of the head, galley, etc.

deniseO30 07-12-2013 07:53 PM

Re: Sea Trial Only After Sales Contract?
 
Look here for owners of the same boat and pm or start a discussion, maybe get lucky and invited to go sail.

Most brokers (or owners) won't splash a boat unless they have some of your money, mainly because it costs money to splash a boat. You would have a sea trial anyway if you get it surveyed. And if you don't like it by then. You can so "no deal" and not get your money back for the survey and sea trial. Nothing at all like test driving a car. But you may get lucky if a private owner's boat is already in the water. then you would have the privilege of having a "quick haul" to inspect her undersides. :)

miatapaul 07-12-2013 08:07 PM

Re: Sea Trial Only After Sales Contract?
 
Yes most brokers can't be tied up all day to look at just one boat. The other thing is too frequently you can be taken out if it is a private seller. I think sometimes the sellers are looking for an excuse to take it out. I think sail trial is really only critical (as a boat buying decision) if it is an unusual boat. Such as a rig you are not familiar with. For instance I was trying to understand a wishbone rigged cat ketch, and it was easier to understand how it worked by going out. I was able to see how close it would point to the wind and how tacking was. But for seeing the difference between the way a Hunter is different from a Catalina I think I understand it is not the brokers or the sellers job to help you make that decision. Otherwise the "sea trial" is really to make sure everything works, like motor under stress, the winches auto pilot and things that cannot be tested on land.

Now on the other hand if they are selling something different it is to there benefit to show the advantages. No better way than to take you out. A long time ago I was a part time boat salesman, and I enjoyed taking people out. It was a way for me to get out on the water and go fast, my boat at the time was a house boat and was a beast to take out on the river. I remember taking people out on Fountains and testing top speed! Seems the power boat dealers are more likely to take you out. Perhaps it is because it is easier to go out for a few min. Also if you take a speed freak out on the water and show what 100 mph feels like on a mile wide stretch of river they will do what it takes to buy the boat.

ctl411 07-12-2013 08:10 PM

Re: Sea Trial Only After Sales Contract?
 
It is still a buyers market so if the boat is in the water you may get a ride. Really depends on the owner and unfortunately the broker (some suck beyond belief ). I took anyone that asked out for a ride when I sold mine. Even ones I new were not going to buy. But I liked sailing my boat and had the time. I even invited people not looking to buy ( Julie ) and a few others. So ask all they can say is no " must be under contract" then you choose to pursue or not.

GeorgeB 07-12-2013 08:12 PM

Re: Sea Trial Only After Sales Contract?
 
Julie, boats are more like real estate transactions than automobiles. Asking for a pre-contract boat ride would be the same as wanting to spend a weekend in someone’s house before you decide you might want to make an offer. The survey and sea trial function the same way as home inspections do. To determine that all the systems are functioning to the buyer’s satisfaction. If they do not, you may try to re-enter negotiations and adjust for any deficiencies you may note.

The tough thing is you need to have already decided upon what type of boat you want to buy. If you are that unsure of what you want or how different types of boats perform, you might want to engage a buyer’s broker who will be able to advise you during your search. You are also benefiting from a wealth of knowledge from this on line community.

Tempest 07-12-2013 08:21 PM

Re: Sea Trial Only After Sales Contract?
 
Julie, if you're willing to share what model boat you're looking at perhaps there's a sailnet member that has the same boat nearby and would be willing to take you out for a sail.

JulieMor 07-12-2013 08:55 PM

Re: Sea Trial Only After Sales Contract?
 
If there was an Ericson 38 we could charter for a day, we would. But there isn't. We even asked the broker if any of his clients would be willing to, for a fee, of course. He acted like he didn't even want to ask.

I've heard the E38 is tender off the start but stiffens up. Heeling doesn't phase me but I'm not so sure about the SO. When we were out on the Jeanneau 379 a few weeks ago in 12-18K winds, I thought I saw :eek:

I've been at the helm of a number of different boats and I can generally get a sense of them pretty quickly. I'd also like to feel her under power and hear the engine under load. Between being under sail and power, I can get an over sense of things and get a fairly good idea if the boat and I are going to be friends or lovers. ;)

The broker said he'd ask. And I'm good with that. If the owner says no, we'll make do.

We saw an E34 - PS build - and liked it. That's what got us started on looking at Ericson. It will be interesting to see what the E38 is like. :)


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:19 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012