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  #11  
Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Rob,

I agree with Tim R. about "timing".
I disagree about going through brokers.

You have clearly explained what you're looking for, and your expectations seem realistic. You have clearly demonstrated that you understand sailing vessels, what the critical items are, where and what you should be looking at.
A broker is an unnecessary expense when you have the level of knowledge that you appear to have.

The only advice I can offer you, is keep doing what you're doing. Put feelers out everywhere, look at every available resource for boat sales. Have patience, the right girl will come along.

I sympathize with your frustration.
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  #12  
Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Looks like there is plenty of room in the used boat market for a PROFESSIONAL STAGER - Sellers are disillusioned about what they have, value it represents, competition, and the real costs of getting a boat in the right condition to show to a large and aggresive buyer pool. Unfortunately many boaters are too frugal (cheap?) to have someone stage or regularly detail their boats, believing that a seasonal washdown will suffice.

The truths in marketing (from my real estate bag of 'tricks', quoting Dirk Zeller)-

Sales are governed by the law of supply and demand. This rule is absolute and without exception. The appreciation of a market, the expectations of buyers and sellers, and the velocity of market sales are all dictated by the supply of -- and the demand for -- real estate for sale.

Sales are governed by the law of cause and effect. Put differently, positive situations cause positive outcomes, and vice versa. For example, a vibrant economic growth leads to a vibrant real estate market and strong appreciation of homes, while loss of jobs and a languishing economy produce exactly the opposite effect.

History will repeat itself. In any marketplace, there are cycles. Periods of rapid appreciation are followed by stagnant periods where values stabilize or even decrease. By acquiring marketplace knowledge, you can foresee trends.

This definitely applies to boats, and the huge downside with boats is depreciation caused by neglect, environment and substandard work by ill informed owners and untrained yard staff. Deep down we all must know this, and at some point deal with it.
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Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Hey,

A few more or less random thoughts:

-I keep hearing that it's a buyer's market, that if you don't like the boat you're currently looking at, then just walk away because another boat is right around the corner, that boat's are going for penny's on the dollar, etc.
-But when you hear from someone who is actually looking to buy a boat, they can't seem to find a decent one.

-When I was looking to purchase an inexpensive, production type 35ish racer / cruiser (could it really be 6 years ago?) I saw a bunch of duds from bunch of dud brokers. Then I got a little smarter. I started asking the hard questions like what does the engine compartment look like, and to please send me pictures, etc. I was honest with the broker that I was REALLY going to buy a boat, but not a POS. I asked him to not waste my time and his time by showing me a POS but talking it up like it was great. Some brokers were good at using code words, like 'just needs a good cleaning', or 'sails need updating' (if the sails need updating you can be sure that lots of other things need work too.

-Most brokers did give me the information I needed and that saved me hours of driving.

-The boat I did purchase was far from perfect, but was good enough from condition, price, performance ,etc, to make me happy.

Good luck,
Barry
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  #14  
Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Rug-

You'd think that there would be a real market for "stagers", but I think that a lot of these people would never shell out the money for the service.

If these people don't love their vessels enough to maintain them, and let them decay to a decrepit condition, what makes you think that they would suddenly pay someone to clean them up to a saleable condition?

People who maintain their boats well, will simply clean and primp their own boats before putting them up for sale, because they are used to keeping them in a presentable fashion in the first place.

I mean, it makes sense on the surface, but I think it would be a non-starter.
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Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Most boats are beyond staging and I would find it rather insulting to find some nice throw pillows and a fresh cleaning on a boat with a seized engine or delaminated hull or 20 year old rigging(unless it was previously fully disclosed and priced accordingly). This is otherwise known as lipstick on a pig.

Staging is a way to de-personalize something to make it more acceptable to a new possible owner. On a boat this means removing all the unnecessary clutter, items that do not go with the sale, do a good cleaning and give the boat a feel that a new owner could imagine himself/herself fitting in.

Staging will not hide deferred maintenance or missing/broken items to a savvy buyer.
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

I totally get that Tim & Bubble - what is lacking all too often is the pride of ownership reflected in cosmetic, structural, mechanical & an 'all systems are go' frame of mind. How many boat owners do you know that have, and are committed to use, a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, semi-annual . . . schedule and dedicated service log for their boat? While staging on the surface is cosmetic, it should really be about total preparation for sale (and safe use). If the seller can't see the truth about their boat, perhaps a pre-survey and mechanical evaluation will uncover all the problems that will prevent a sale, and give a serious seller the opportunity to correct them. Provided they are willing to pay, and realize they can't add that expense on to the price.
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Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Usually, the first thing the owner of a new boat does is bring her up to their standards. For a while, pride of ownership keeps the owner motivated to maintain her in the best condition they can afford.

Usually, when an owner decides to sell, the boat is no longer in that same condition they brought it to because they have tired of her.

There are some owners who have been hit by the unexpected, loss of job, loss of loved one, etc. There's also relocation. These owners have to sell. So these boats have the best chance of being in good condition.

If the owner isn't moving up to a bigger boat, and they don't fall into the above category, chances are the boat's condition isn't up to par with how the owner kept it when they first owned it.
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post






We're planning a trip out east. It will be a vacation, the chance to see friends and take in what the area has to offer. Along the way we plan to check out as many different types of boats as we can. Call it mind games, cuz the real reason we're heading out east is to see boats, but we're making it into a vacation. And we will enjoy the vacation, regardless of what the boats look like.
.
This is what we did on our Florida trip. The boats we went to see were in bad shape for the money asked. We put a offer on one then took the kids snorkeling/ site seeing. Had a great time, but owner couldn't understand our offer. Even after his broker told him the condition of the boat. They ended up pulling it off the market so a friend could check it out. We moved on and our new boat should be to the yard (where I'm waiting) in a hour or so. By making a vacation out of helps to not go crazy spending money on trips to see boats.
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Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

I understand where the OP is coming from. We went to a broker/marina used boat show. Boarded one boat and almost lost our lunch due to head smell.

This thread may be of some use to you OP.
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Group9 View Post
Find a broker. Many people ask for what they still owe on a boat, not for what it's worth.
Well -of course. I've a (recommended by our favorite naval architect) buyers broker representing me on the purchase side. And I know my broker has a very good reputation amongst buyers as honest with high integrity. I am a federally licensed aircraft technician and my job at times includes inspecting and returning aircraft to service. I would have thought I could catch some of the issues my surveyor found but they all required quite a bit of sleuthing, knowing where to look, prior knowledge of similar boats (and haulout) to find.

Some of the boats I've looked at and dismissed outright -Hylas 42, Hylas 44, -Lafitte 44, Kelly Peterson 44 (and KP46), Baba 40, Panda 40, Mason 43, Valiant 40, Caliber 40, Tayana 42 and a few others.
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