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  #21  
Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Wow -Thanks to everybody for your great insights!! I think many people have been in my shoes. JulieMor you have some wise words and you seem to know finance! I've taken everyones input and now am comforted by the fact that I'm not off my rocker. Yes, I'm a serious buyer. I realize that my purchase price of apx. $170 will likely need another $50k all said and done before I'm ready to cross oceans.

I guess it may just take a LOT LONGER than I was expecting. More than the year I've put in. I think another poster is correct in that you have to be in the right place at the right time and be ready with cash in the correct market. Ive got the cash. In this market it seems boats would likely be neglected due to distressed owners making up the bulk of sellers. The corollary would be a great market with well maintained boats at commensurately higher prices.

I've tried but found it almost impossible to deal with a seller directly. Brokers are very protective of any identifying info. I've found a few boats (I've walked the docks in several cities) and when I find a boat I have left a message in a plastic bag tied to their lifeline. No luck there so far. Asking other boaters on the dock around the marina about the owner usually gets nowhere. Most folks with boats nearby usually say "I never see them here". The dockmaster will not reveal any info for legal reasons.

I've asked several brokers to go through their past clients and find someone with the boats on my target list and ask if they might sell. That has not come up with any boats.

Know of anyone out there with a Nordic 44? Norseman 447? Passport 40? If they have cruising gear on board I'll make them a sweet offer :-)
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  #22  
Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Well you found out the hard way ; -

There are liars.

There are dammed liars

Then there are people selling boats.

Ok this is not universally true and I looked at boats that had been honestly described and talked to brokers where after a little probing the broker came up with things like;-

"The owner has not been aboard for 18 months"

"The owner can't drop the price, that is what he owes the bank."

"No I have not actually seen the boat."

It is definitely worth having a checklist of questions and to ask for some specific pics of anything you might have concerns about.

But that won't protect you from someone who just lies to get you there. I travelled a couple of hundred miles to look at boat that was described as 'ready for the water' and 'on a roadworthy trailer' There were holes in the deck and topsides, the trailer had no tow hitch and all tires were flat. I did not even get out of the car. The pictures he sent must have either been from an earlier age or of another boat.

However there are many good brokers around here are two that dealt very fairly with me and saved me from making pointless trips.

Dave McCall Maritime Yacht Sales USVI. He flew to another island and took many extra pictures for me.

Advantage Yacht Sales of Indiantown. They answered questions very honestly and in some cases hinted that the boat had just been put on the market and that while the price was clearly unrealistic the seller needed to 'marinate' for a year or so when the price would tumble.
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  #23  
Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheckedOutRob View Post
---
LOOK. IF YOU ARE A SELLER DON'T FREEKING LYE TO MY FACE -I'M GONNA FIND THIS STUFF OUT ANYWAY. STOP BEING A DOUCHBAG. ---
CheckedOutRob -
If you want to vent spelling is important.
"freeking" should be "freaking"
"lye"should be "lie"
"douchbag" should be "douchebag"
There. I feel better now. Lol.

Zee - I don't get your reference to misspelling "maroon"?
Unless you're referring to "moronic"?
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  #24  
Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheckedOutRob View Post
Wow -Thanks to everybody for your great insights!! I think many people have been in my shoes. JulieMor you have some wise words and you seem to know finance! I've taken everyones input and now am comforted by the fact that I'm not off my rocker. Yes, I'm a serious buyer. I realize that my purchase price of apx. $170 will likely need another $50k all said and done before I'm ready to cross oceans.

I guess it may just take a LOT LONGER than I was expecting. More than the year I've put in. I think another poster is correct in that you have to be in the right place at the right time and be ready with cash in the correct market. Ive got the cash. In this market it seems boats would likely be neglected due to distressed owners making up the bulk of sellers. The corollary would be a great market with well maintained boats at commensurately higher prices.

I've tried but found it almost impossible to deal with a seller directly. Brokers are very protective of any identifying info. I've found a few boats (I've walked the docks in several cities) and when I find a boat I have left a message in a plastic bag tied to their lifeline. No luck there so far. Asking other boaters on the dock around the marina about the owner usually gets nowhere. Most folks with boats nearby usually say "I never see them here". The dockmaster will not reveal any info for legal reasons.

I've asked several brokers to go through their past clients and find someone with the boats on my target list and ask if they might sell. That has not come up with any boats.

Know of anyone out there with a Nordic 44? Norseman 447? Passport 40? If they have cruising gear on board I'll make them a sweet offer :-)
I guess I'm still not clear on your pricing. Are you saying you have a purchase budget of $170K - and are expecting to put in another $50K to get her ready?

At least according to the photos - this looks like a damn nice Passport - for way less than $170K:

1984 Passport 42 New Decks 42 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

And it doesn't appear that you'd need another $50K to shove off.

[Disclaimer - I have no idea if the people involved with this boat are LMDs.]
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 07-16-2013 at 03:53 PM.
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  #25  
Old 07-16-2013
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Wink Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I guess I'm still not clear on your pricing. Are you saying you have a purchase budget of $170K - and are expecting to put in another $50K to get her ready?

At least according to the photos - this looks like a damn nice Passport 40 - for way less than $170K:

1984 Passport 42 New Decks 42 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

And it doesn't appear that you'd need another $50K to shove off.

[Disclaimer - I have no idea if the people involved with this boat are LMDs.]
I've seen (been aboard) this Passport 42. It is (was) located at Jabin's yard in Annaplois.

It has been on the market for 2-2.5 years. Think it started out at 130-140K.

Cosmetically it looks quite good.

Beware of offsett companion way.
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Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

And from the seller's point of view:

Don't come back with a counter offer 25% lower than asking because it needs x, y and z. I know this, that's why I set the price where it was when put up for sale. Start with the price of a new boat and deduct the value if you think fixing x, y and z should be on my tab or you want them corrected as a condition of sale to make a 25 year old boat like new.

But yes - these flaws should all be mentioned if known. Inventory and age of sales, structural integrity, maintenance history, rotted cores, etc.
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

To speak to your original question...yes.
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  #28  
Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delirious View Post
And from the seller's point of view:

Don't come back with a counter offer 25% lower than asking because it needs x, y and z. I know this, that's why I set the price where it was when put up for sale. Start with the price of a new boat and deduct the value if you think fixing x, y and z should be on my tab or you want them corrected as a condition of sale to make a 25 year old boat like new.

But yes - these flaws should all be mentioned if known. Inventory and age of sales, structural integrity, maintenance history, rotted cores, etc.
Some owners/sellers are just unrealistic when they set the price. Some brokers will go along.

My first offer was about 45% of the original asking price and the deal done at around 50% on my current boat. Yes they sunk a ton of money into the boat but that was the market price. It needed nothing doing to it at all, truly turnkey. I did change the perfectly good manual windlass for an electric one as I regard this as a safety device.

Last edited by TQA; 07-16-2013 at 07:05 PM. Reason: spulling mistook
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  #29  
Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd View Post
Rob,

I agree with Tim R. about "timing".
I disagree about going through brokers.

You have clearly explained what you're looking for, and your expectations seem realistic. You have clearly demonstrated that you understand sailing vessels, what the critical items are, where and what you should be looking at.
A broker is an unnecessary expense when you have the level of knowledge that you appear to have.

The only advice I can offer you, is keep doing what you're doing. Put feelers out everywhere, look at every available resource for boat sales. Have patience, the right girl will come along.

I sympathize with your frustration.
There are lots of FSBO boats like yours at the sub 10K-20K point. At his level most are listed with brokers

I don't get why he doesn't just go look at boats that are listed for sale whether privately or with a broker? If he finds one he likes, make an offer that he is happy with and if they accept, what does he care if the seller pays a fee?

Sellers, brokers and buyers come in all flavors. It’s just the way it is.
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Old 07-16-2013
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Re: Are ALL Sellers LYING MORONIC DOUCHBAGS??

Quote:
Originally Posted by jorgenl View Post
I've seen (been aboard) this Passport 42. It is (was) located at Jabin's yard in Annaplois.

It has been on the market for 2-2.5 years. Think it started out at 130-140K.

Cosmetically it looks quite good.

Beware of offsett companion way.
I have also been on that boat. It has severe stree fractures below the companionway door and that whole area was rebuilt. In addition the interior was poorly taken care of and there is evidence of leaking. Some of which was probably from the original teak dek which has been replaced with fiberglass

This boats a dog with lipstick. That's why it's been on the market 2 years
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