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  #121  
Old 07-25-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

What is your TIME worth?
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  #122  
Old 07-26-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

I realize the thread has strayed off topic but I was hoping to clear things up.

Up to now I have believed that if you make an offer on a boat you must put down a 10% deposit. The broker went through the whole process with us and that's what I took away from it.

As I read the frequently given advice to "just make an offer," I started to wonder if I understood the process correctly. Believing that you need to put that 10% earnest money down, it made no sense to me to start making offers until I at least saw some boats. And putting down 10% for every boat we saw made ZERO sense!

Stepping aboard a Sabre 34 and a C&C 37+ a few weeks ago told me those pictures we saw on Yachtworld weren't very representative of the real thing. So physically seeing the boat became mandatory, for us.

The broker showed us a sold Ericson 34 because he thought the Ericson line might fit what we were looking for. We both liked it but wanted a bit more room and the Ericson 38 entered the scene. This was four weeks ago.

From there we found an Ericson 38 in MD that really interested me. But I knew I had to see it. So I've been patiently waiting for my SO to get some time work off so we can.

Two weeks after the first showing, we inspected a newly listed E38 that was priced at the high end, and we'd have to pour thousands into it. No sense in making an offer unless we came back from our trip empty handed.

BTW, we learned when YW pictures are recent, the real boat can actually look like the pictures. But if the pictures are dated...

As far as the "over analyzing" thing? I'm retired. I'm just occupying time until we leave for the coast.
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  #123  
Old 07-26-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

The 10% deposit seems to have been cleared up, but I missed it. Just in case....... You don't send 10% with our first offer. You send it with the contract as soon as your offer is accepted, otherwise, you don't know what you're sending 10% of.
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  #124  
Old 07-26-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

10% deposit has been industry standard for many years, usually accompanied by your first offer to purchase. Most but not all brokers did not deposit your check until and if there was an accepted offer. The check simply demonstrated good faith and often required a second, updated check once the counter offer was agreed to.

In order to streamline this sometimes cumbersome process and to facilitate more offers, the Florida Yacht Brokers Association has changed their purchase contracts to reflect that the deposit must be received within three business days of the seller signing the agreement. YBAA might have done the same but not sure.

Now it is much easier to make an offer.

BTW, generally you wouldn’t make simultaneous offers on more than one boat. What if they were all accepted?
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  #125  
Old 07-26-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Buying a boat of that size is a big step. And once bought, a decision you'll live with for a long time. Personally, I see nothing wrong with analysing the hell out of it and taking your time.
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  #126  
Old 07-26-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
The 10% deposit seems to have been cleared up, but I missed it. Just in case....... You don't send 10% with our first offer. You send it with the contract as soon as your offer is accepted, otherwise, you don't know what you're sending 10% of.
The way I understood it was when you went to make an offer, you took 10% of that offer and placed it as good faith so the seller knows you're serious.

Thanks for clearing that up!

Edit: We've been having some disagreement here, based on this new information (to us) and what we understood with our time with the broker. Just to clarify...

The Yacht Purchase Sales Agreement does not come into play until both parties have agreed on a price. Correct? And this document is not used until that time?

Is the offer then just verbal?

Last edited by JulieMor; 07-26-2013 at 12:35 PM.
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  #127  
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailpower View Post
10% deposit has been industry standard for many years, usually accompanied by your first offer to purchase. Most but not all brokers did not deposit your check until and if there was an accepted offer. The check simply demonstrated good faith and often required a second, updated check once the counter offer was agreed to.

In order to streamline this sometimes cumbersome process and to facilitate more offers, the Florida Yacht Brokers Association has changed their purchase contracts to reflect that the deposit must be received within three business days of the seller signing the agreement. YBAA might have done the same but not sure.

Now it is much easier to make an offer.

BTW, generally you wouldn’t make simultaneous offers on more than one boat. What if they were all accepted?
This is how we've been looking at it. So no sense making an offer until you are satisfied this is the boat you want. Tough to do after seeing only a few boats.

The idea of making several offers just to test the seller never occurred to us but the repeated advice to make an offer made me wonder if some did it that way.
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  #128  
Old 07-26-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

I think some of the advice to "just make an offer" was made before it was known that you have only seen four boats. It would not be unusual for someone to look at 40 or 50 boats before making an offer. Although it's certainly possible you've already seen the right boat for you, it would be very unusual to make an offer after only seeing four boats. Don't let others rush you into this.

When I bought my boat, we did a shopping trip every weekend for about four months. (Some of those trips were chronicled here, with some similar frustrations to what you have shown.)

I can't remember how many boats we saw, but here's an estimate: 16 trips (different brokerages from Norfolk, VA to Kingston, NY) x 4-6 boats per trip = 64 to 96 boats.

Like you, we turned each trip into an excuse to have some fun, partly to ease the pain of seeing rotting, neglected, moldy hull carcasses being passed off as sail-away condition.

FYI, I also placed offers on 3 or 4 boats along the way, but I'm glad they were rejected because they were too big for the type of daysailing that our busy lives restrict us to.

Take your time and find the right boat. You might want to focus on gaining experience looking without worrying about price for awhile.

FYI, the Catalina 250 that we bought was a sister ship of the first boat we looked at. However, the first one had some issues that we were unwilling to accept. The specimen we ended up buying was one year newer (significant, because Catalina made some significant upgrades in our model year) and in much better condition. It was also located at the exact same marina as the first one we saw, although ours was a FSBO, not a brokerage boat.

The broker that showed us the first boat had "sized us up" perfectly - he just didn't have the right specimen of boat at the time. The fact that we bought the same model boat from someone else at his own marina frustrated him a bit, and I tease him about it at every boat show. I don't think he minds, because he's a nice guy and he knows I'll likely come his way for my next boat.
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  #129  
Old 07-26-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Julie, please do not let the ones who seem to think you need to rush to spend thousands of dollars of YOUR money to purchase a boat before you know enough about it to make a good decision influence you.

I have been in the business of buying and selling things for a long time, I have done it full time and part time for most of my adult life and it is about 25% of my annual income, and I can say without a doubt, I will look at whatever number of boats I choose to look at before I spend MY money, and you know why I can do this, just like you can, because it is bloody well my time and my money and I will do with it as I please.

I have sold more vehicles than I can even remember, and quite a few boats, and other things, and guess what? I know that not everyone who looks is going to buy, I can only sell each piece one time, and then it is gone, so I do not worry about it, I treat every single person as though that person were the very last one who would look, being the one that would purchase the thing I am selling. I never underestimate a person's ability to choose whether or not to buy based on how they liked the thing I am selling as well as how they liked me. I am not always patient in everything I do, but man I sure work hard to be patient with those who potentially may give me a chunk of their money.

I have told you about how I have looked at boats where the photos were old and the boat was a wreck when I got to see it. It happens all the time, in fact yesterday I was looking at several boats on yachtworld and a couple of other sites and saw some with photos that were quite obviously taken in the late 60's when the boat was new, seeing this I called the broker and asked to have some recent photos taken, he said the seller could not provide them. I thanked him for his time and informed him that I was no longer interested, you see I know that if the seller cannot be bothered to give me a true representation of the vessel, he has not taken care of it.

I also will not consider a boat where all of the photos were taken with a fisheye lense, this distorts the true size and condition of the vessel. If the seller will not provide clear, undistorted photos, I do not have the time anymore to go look at the boat. One trip that took an entire weekend of my time was enough to break me of doing those things. I have to weigh the value of my time, and three days to me is equal to about $2k in missed earnings, I am not going to waste my time with those who will not provide me with the information I need. I have shown my financials to a couple of brokers I am dealing with to show that I am well qualified, and I have talked in depth with them about what I am looking for in a vessel, they know I am serious, and I know it. Outside of the buyer, the seller, and the intermediaries like brokers and bankers no one else need be convinced of your seriousness, and a lot of the ones squawking the most are probably the same ones trying to skin someone on a used boat, after all, everyone knows it is still a buyers market and it is not going to get any better for sellers any time soon. Good thing we are shopping to buy and not trying to sell.
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  #130  
Old 07-26-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
Just to clarify...

The Yacht Purchase Sales Agreement does not come into play until both parties have agreed on a price. Correct? And this document is not used until that time?

Is the offer then just verbal?
No. The Yacht Purchase and Sales Agreement is the document that you sign when you make your offer. Along with your offered price it spells out the contingencies and timeline associated with your offer.

The back and forth is then usually verbal until there is agreement at which point the purchase agreement is brought up to date and ratified.

Most but not all do it this way.
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