What Is A Boat Really Worth? - Page 14 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree143Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #131  
Old 07-26-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,850
Thanks: 10
Thanked 132 Times in 118 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Nuances.

Big huge expensive boats are more formal than less expensive boats.

In Julie's price range, a verbal offer that clarified whether there was a finance contingency and a promise to send the contract and good faith deposit right behind it, should suffice. But, it is the sellers call.

For that matter, when I made my offer on this boat, the seller, my broker, the seller's broker and me were all in 4 different, non-contiguous states. The offer was not held up by the speed of the post office. I committed that the check would go in the mail to my broker today. The offer was brought forward without it. We did haggle for a week or two, in which time the check was not cashed. I don't think the brokers want the responsibility for the actual cash, unless there is an actual deal.

However, my broker was able to vouch for me, as we had just gone through survey on another that failed. He knew I was good for it.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to Minnewaska For This Useful Post:
JulieMor (07-26-2013)
  #132  
Old 07-26-2013
sailpower's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 239
Thanks: 1
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 7
sailpower is on a distinguished road
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Nuances.

Big huge expensive boats are more formal than less expensive boats.

In Julie's price range, a verbal offer that clarified whether there was a finance contingency and a promise to send the contract and good faith deposit right behind it, should suffice. But, it is the sellers call.

For that matter, when I made my offer on this boat, the seller, my broker, the seller's broker and me were all in 4 different, non-contiguous states. The offer was not held up by the speed of the post office. I committed that the check would go in the mail to my broker today. The offer was brought forward without it. We did haggle for a week or two, in which time the check was not cashed. I don't think the brokers want the responsibility for the actual cash, unless there is an actual deal.

However, my broker was able to vouch for me, as we had just gone through survey on another that failed. He knew I was good for it.
Professional brokers generally treat 50K offers the same as 50M offers. i.e. in writing with contingencies spelled out. Sure it is occasionally more relaxed depending on circumstances but overall it is mostly done in writing.

Professional Broker organizations such as FYBA, CYBA and YBAA require their members to proceed this way as protection for all parties.

BTW, it wasn’t necessary to be in the same place to obtain the signatures although after the third or fourth faxing it might as well have been verbal! Today, scanners and email have solved the legibility issues and there is now transaction software coming on line that will really make things easier..
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to sailpower For This Useful Post:
JulieMor (07-26-2013)
  #133  
Old 07-27-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,850
Thanks: 10
Thanked 132 Times in 118 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

I think there are only two professional brokers in the wild right now, one is sick and the other is out cruising. The rest just call themselves brokers.

I sense there might be subtle differences by region. Ultimately, you must have a contract and 10% deposit. That seems a constant. Whether an offer will be communicated verbally, might depend on circumstance.

I guess, if no party really knows you or you appear to be a tire kicker, the process can get more formal. If it's a broker you've used before, as I have, they are the one that is going to hold the money anyway. The seller never sees it until closing. In fact, never sees it at all, since it is the same as the brokers commission. Its sort of silly to have an uncashed check sitting on the desk of a buy side broker the seller has never met.

Regardless of formality, they always present the offer verbally, even if they have it in writing and check in hand. They want to communicate what the paper never does. This is a good buyer. Your boat may not sell for another decade. Etc. They do want to get a deal done to be paid.

There is an irony to proferring in writing. While the seller may not accept a verbal offer, the buyer really doesn't have a committed seller until they receive the contract signed by the seller.

The contract ties the seller hands more than the buyers.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #134  
Old 07-27-2013
BubbleheadMd's Avatar
Chastened
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Edgewater/Annapolis
Posts: 2,840
Thanks: 0
Thanked 55 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 5
BubbleheadMd will become famous soon enough
Send a message via Yahoo to BubbleheadMd
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2gmtrans View Post
Julie, please do not let the ones who seem to think you need to rush to spend thousands of dollars of YOUR money to purchase a boat before you know enough about it to make a good decision influence you.
I don't think anyone here advised Julie to just "make an offer" on any old, crappy boat. In fact, in my posts I said that I totally respect her desire to make a smart purchase. What I, and some others have said, is that she's gone to the total other end of the spectrum into total inaction.

There are an awful lot of boats on the market, even of the type that Julie is looking for, and in all this time, they've only looked at four boats. They're at/near the Great Lakes, where there are scads of large, sweet water boats with low hours on them. I could be wrong, but I would think that a serious buyer would have at least physically visited many more boats by now.

She's having more fun tweaking paperwork and studying the boat buying process instead of actually examining boats.

Yes, yes, we're all well aware by now, of your impeccable buying and selling credentials. We've all read your epic tale of how you bested a car dealership at their own game after days and days and long nights of negotiations. Congratulations.

Plenty of your knowledge does apply to buying large sailboats and some of it probably does not apply.

I really was done with commenting on this thread, but I felt that I was implicitly being lumped into the "just do it" category, incorrectly.

Really, I don't see how one could accurately compile a spreadsheet merely by sitting on the sofa, without visiting many sailboats to get a true sense of the interior/exterior dimensions, equipment, prices, conditions, etc. Raw numbers from the internet do not accurately translate into how you feel when you stand inside the boat.

If I were buying an SUV, I would visit many dealers while compiling my spreadsheet, instead of just sitting at home reading about them on the web.
__________________
S/V Old Shoes
1973 Pearson 30 #255
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #135  
Old 07-27-2013
wingNwing's Avatar
formerly posting as eryka
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: aboard s/v Cinderella
Posts: 1,123
Thanks: 5
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 7
wingNwing is on a distinguished road
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I think some of the advice to "just make an offer" was made before it was known that you have only seen four boats. It would not be unusual for someone to look at 40 or 50 boats before making an offer. Although it's certainly possible you've already seen the right boat for you, it would be very unusual to make an offer after only seeing four boats. Don't let others rush you into this.

When I bought my boat, we did a shopping trip every weekend for about four months. (Some of those trips were chronicled here, with some similar frustrations to what you have shown.)

I can't remember how many boats we saw, but here's an estimate: 16 trips (different brokerages from Norfolk, VA to Kingston, NY) x 4-6 boats per trip = 64 to 96 boats.

...

The broker that showed us the first boat had "sized us up" perfectly - he just didn't have the right specimen of boat at the time. The fact that we bought the same model boat from someone else at his own marina frustrated him a bit, and I tease him about it at every boat show. I don't think he minds, because he's a nice guy and he knows I'll likely come his way for my next boat.
I'm going to offer a contrary opinion to the idea of spending time looking at lots of boats, just because I can. A broker that will show you dozens of boats is wasting your time and his/hers flailing around looking for a boat that might work. Far preferable, to me, is a broker that gets to know our needs well enough, "sized us up" as TakeFive says, that he only needs to show us a couple of boats because he's already sorted through what's available and narrowed it down to things that meet the needs we've discussed.

In fact, when we bought the boat we've been living on for the last 11 years, we didn't have to really "look" at all. Based on our criteria, we narrowed it down to just two or three models, then it was merely a matter of waiting for the right example of this particular boat to come up on the market in our price range. As soon as it did, we got an email; a quick back-and-forth to verify condition, and the contract was in place.
T37Chef and davidpm like this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Cinderella, CSY 33, Photo by Joe McCary

Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. - Sidney J. Harris


Shameless self-promotion - my blog for the Annapolis Capital newspaper:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
still has some glitches to be worked out. Until then, I'm posting at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
! And a new project:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #136  
Old 07-27-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,998
Thanks: 5
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 11
wind_magic has a spectacular aura about wind_magic has a spectacular aura about wind_magic has a spectacular aura about
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Few thoughts for the OP ...

The process depends a lot on how you are buying the boat, if it is with cash you can do whatever you want, if it is a loan then you are more limited.

The boat isn't a house, it is a nearly useless thing that costs money, so it is better not to approach it like buying a house. Boats are not "investments" (unless it is an oil tanker or freighter or something). The broker wants you to think of it as if you are buying a vacation home, but really it is more like buying used jewelry that you have to pay someone hundreds of dollars a month to store for you.

The buyer has all of the power in a boat purchase, the seller none, see above.

I think the best way to buy a boat is to ignore the asking price, don't even look at it, and just look at the boat and decide what it is worth to YOU. Once you do that you can take the seller's asking price into consideration, it may be that the price is a good asking price, or they may be asking way too much, but that's all their problem and has nothing to do with you and your money. Make an offer based on what you think the boat is worth to you, don't worry about insulting the seller.

If the seller is unreasonable, there's always another boat ... just walk away, life is too short and boats are too expensive to deal with pushy sellers.

During a recession all of the above x 10.

The people who scold you about trying to save money, etc, are brokers, or they were brokers, ignore them.
davidpm and Neosec like this.
__________________
What are you pretending not to know ?

Please support my
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #137  
Old 07-27-2013
TakeFive's Avatar
If it's blowin' I'm goin'
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Swarthmore, PA
Posts: 2,520
Thanks: 5
Thanked 44 Times in 41 Posts
Rep Power: 5
TakeFive will become famous soon enough
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingNwing View Post
I'm going to offer a contrary opinion to the idea of spending time looking at lots of boats, just because I can. A broker that will show you dozens of boats is wasting your time and his/hers flailing around looking for a boat that might work. Far preferable, to me, is a broker that gets to know our needs well enough, "sized us up" as TakeFive says, that he only needs to show us a couple of boats because he's already sorted through what's available and narrowed it down to things that meet the needs we've discussed.

In fact, when we bought the boat we've been living on for the last 11 years, we didn't have to really "look" at all. Based on our criteria, we narrowed it down to just two or three models, then it was merely a matter of waiting for the right example of this particular boat to come up on the market in our price range. As soon as it did, we got an email; a quick back-and-forth to verify condition, and the contract was in place.
No time to go into great detail now, but a quick comment.

I think buying your FIRST boat is a very different process from buying your NEXT boat. The first time you have a lot of learning to do that can only be accomplished by visiting a lot of specimens. Once you have a boat and have sailed for a number of years, you have a very good idea what you're looking for in the next boat, and you've already narrowed it down. Plus, you're already sailing so if it takes time for the right one to come along, you're not missing out on much.

A first boat buyer has NOTHING, so a lengthy process means missed sailing seasons. He also has less knowledge, so can't narrow it down as fast.
JulieMor likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Formerly posted as "RhythmDoctor"
1998 Catalina 250WK Take Five (at Anchorage Marina, Essington, on the Delaware River)
1991 15' Trophy (Lake Wallenpaupack)
1985 14' Phantom (Lake Wallenpaupack)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to TakeFive For This Useful Post:
wingNwing (07-27-2013)
  #138  
Old 07-27-2013
wingNwing's Avatar
formerly posting as eryka
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: aboard s/v Cinderella
Posts: 1,123
Thanks: 5
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 7
wingNwing is on a distinguished road
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Spot on, TakeFive; Julie has so much sailing experience, that I forget this is the first boat for her and S.O.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Cinderella, CSY 33, Photo by Joe McCary

Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. - Sidney J. Harris


Shameless self-promotion - my blog for the Annapolis Capital newspaper:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
still has some glitches to be worked out. Until then, I'm posting at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
! And a new project:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #139  
Old 07-27-2013
davidpm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 3,679
Thanks: 165
Thanked 38 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 7
davidpm is on a distinguished road
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
We did haggle for a week or two, in which time the check was not cashed. I don't think the brokers want the responsibility for the actual cash, unless there is an actual deal.
The way I understand it is that the deposit check is not cashed until the closing and then it is cashed by the broker as the deposit and brokers fee is both 10%. Some however deposit the check into an escrow account.

As soon as the broker has the signed contract from the seller I believe the seller is committed. IE he can't back out of the deal without paying the 10% to the broker.
If however the buyer wants to back out, from a practical point of view that can happen anytime before the closing.
I know a guy who faxed in a copy of his deposit check. That was enough for the broker to have the contract written and signed by the seller committing the seller.
The buyer then changed his mind and bought a motorcycle. The broker was annoyed but nothing was done.
Even if the broker had a real check the guy could have issued a stop order on it as I believe they are not cashed until the closing. In any event I'm pretty sure the concept of a deposit check is mostly psychological as I doubt they are forfeited too often.

Has anyone heard of a deposit check being forfeited? It must have happened and would be a good story.
__________________
The lesson from the Icarus story is not about human failing.
It is a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive.
If you have an engineering problem solve it.

Last edited by davidpm; 07-27-2013 at 11:12 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #140  
Old 07-27-2013
aeventyr60's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Andaman Sea
Posts: 1,493
Thanks: 5
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts
Rep Power: 4
aeventyr60 is on a distinguished road
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Most brokers will have an escrow account where deposit funds are held. Sometimes the actual closing, final disbursement of funds may take additional time when survey findings need to be taken care of. On my purchase there were several items that needed to be remedied before the deal was closed. My check was cashed into the escrow account. When all survey items were completed, the balance due was paid and everybody was happy.
davidpm likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



"Your dreams minus your doubts equals your net worth"

Life is a short journey, filled with emptiness and pain. Get all the sailing and booty you can.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Boat worth price? cd25 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 12 08-06-2012 11:36 AM
Is this boat worth saving? dylanwinter1 General Discussion (sailing related) 18 05-31-2011 09:20 PM
Beachcat Sailing Series at Fort Worth Boat Club, Fort Worth, TX (The Beachcats) NewsReader News Feeds 0 02-12-2007 03:15 PM
Gift Boat--Worth it? Tikimama Boat Review and Purchase Forum 7 08-04-2003 11:07 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:35 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.