What Is A Boat Really Worth? - Page 8 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree143Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #71  
Old 07-20-2013
SloopJonB's Avatar
Senior Moment Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 10,347
Thanks: 55
Thanked 34 Times in 32 Posts
Rep Power: 3
SloopJonB will become famous soon enough
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

When Maine refers to "2%'ers" I think he is referring to those rare boats out there that are pristine - in new or better than new condition.

In those case, a "bargain" price would be better compared to a new boat price rather than the used market range for the same or similar boats.

If you use that perspective it's easy to see a relatively expensive boat as a bargain. Buying what amounts to a new boat for say 60% of the new price compared to paying say 30% of new for a typical, well used boat that requires a significant investment for the "usual" upgrades can be an astute purchase.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken, opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #72  
Old 07-20-2013
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12,717
Thanks: 71
Thanked 61 Times in 55 Posts
Rep Power: 8
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
When Maine refers to "2%'ers" I think he is referring to those rare boats out there that are pristine - in new or better than new condition.

In those case, a "bargain" price would be better compared to a new boat price rather than the used market range for the same or similar boats.

If you use that perspective it's easy to see a relatively expensive boat as a bargain. Buying what amounts to a new boat for say 60% of the new price compared to paying say 30% of new for a typical, well used boat that requires a significant investment for the "usual" upgrades can be an astute purchase.
Ah, okay. That I can see.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #73  
Old 07-20-2013
JulieMor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 853
Thanks: 47
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 3
JulieMor is on a distinguished road
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

I think the inconsistencies in price are due in large part to the number of brokers who list a boat at whatever the seller asks so they can get the listing. Then those numbers get posted on YW or SL and act as a barometer for future sellers to use to price their boat. It's self perpetuating.

Some brokers guide the seller and help them reach a realistic price, one based more on recent sold prices than recent listing prices. And a seller taking that advice will probably sell the boat faster than average.

In real estate, I've seen realtors run from homeowners who have unrealistic expectations about the value of their home. Those who take the listing anyway will put on a show then suggest a price drop if there's no nibbles. And they keep doing that until the home sells.

All selling agents, regardless of the commodity, want to sell because that's how they get paid. Buyer, seller, it doesn't matter, their real loyalty is to themselves and that means getting things sold so they can make a living. So it benefits them to get the seller to lower the price if too high and try to guide a buyer into the deal. But they won't put a lot of time into a boat they feel is overpriced, not when they can sell another boat to that buyer.

$10K may be a lot to the seller but is only $500 to the selling agent, unless he is also the broker, then he keeps the whole $1,000. But if you can make $2K now or $2.5K who-knows-when, you'll take the $2K now and move on to the next prospect.

That's why I'm surprised you don't see more price drops in boat listings. A boat that's sitting for 6 months that has had no price drops means either the broker forgot about it or the seller won't budge. This process isn't just about serious buyers, it's also about serious sellers. And, of course, supply and demand.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #74  
Old 07-20-2013
T37Chef's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,954
Thanks: 16
Thanked 23 Times in 22 Posts
Rep Power: 8
T37Chef will become famous soon enough
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
To all those who have a boat, what the heck are you doing here? Go enjoy it!
I enjoyed a great sail today, even with a less than pristine bottom we hit 7.8 on a broad reach. I will next weekend and maybe Tuesday or Wednesday enjoy a sail as well. No need to remind me to go.
JulieMor likes this.
__________________
Shawn
Tartan 37 - S/V Windgeist
Sailing the Chesapeake Bay


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Photo by Joe McCary
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #75  
Old 07-20-2013
TakeFive's Avatar
If it's blowin' I'm goin'
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Swarthmore, PA
Posts: 2,283
Thanks: 1
Thanked 26 Times in 26 Posts
Rep Power: 5
TakeFive will become famous soon enough
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Bareboat charter on Lake Washington tomorrow. Can't wait!
JulieMor likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Formerly posted as "RhythmDoctor"
1998 Catalina 250WK Take Five (at Anchorage Marina, Essington, on the Delaware River)
1991 15' Trophy (Lake Wallenpaupack)
1985 14' Phantom (Lake Wallenpaupack)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #76  
Old 07-21-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 406
Thanks: 9
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
Rep Power: 1
TJC45 is on a distinguished road
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Current data on sailboat sales is hard to find. One source listed current time on market to sell a sailboat as 303 days. It also noted that sailboat sales was largely dominated by used boat sales. 8 out 10 sailboat sold, pre-enjoyed. And, finally that the total number of sailboats sold, relative to powerboats was very small.

Even if the data is stale, the message to sailboat owners is clear- love the one you are with, because it is going to take time, and effort, and money to move on.
JulieMor likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #77  
Old 07-21-2013
sailpower's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 225
Thanks: 1
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 6
sailpower is on a distinguished road
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
I think the inconsistencies in price are due in large part to the number of brokers who list a boat at whatever the seller asks so they can get the listing. Then those numbers get posted on YW or SL and act as a barometer for future sellers to use to price their boat. It's self perpetuating.

Some brokers guide the seller and help them reach a realistic price, one based more on recent sold prices than recent listing prices. And a seller taking that advice will probably sell the boat faster than average.

In real estate, I've seen realtors run from homeowners who have unrealistic expectations about the value of their home. Those who take the listing anyway will put on a show then suggest a price drop if there's no nibbles. And they keep doing that until the home sells.

All selling agents, regardless of the commodity, want to sell because that's how they get paid. Buyer, seller, it doesn't matter, their real loyalty is to themselves and that means getting things sold so they can make a living. So it benefits them to get the seller to lower the price if too high and try to guide a buyer into the deal. But they won't put a lot of time into a boat they feel is overpriced, not when they can sell another boat to that buyer.

$10K may be a lot to the seller but is only $500 to the selling agent, unless he is also the broker, then he keeps the whole $1,000. But if you can make $2K now or $2.5K who-knows-when, you'll take the $2K now and move on to the next prospect.

That's why I'm surprised you don't see more price drops in boat listings. A boat that's sitting for 6 months that has had no price drops means either the broker forgot about it or the seller won't budge. This process isn't just about serious buyers, it's also about serious sellers. And, of course, supply and demand.
A correction, the broker generally receives 50% of what he/she brings in so the $ 500 or the $1,000 would actually be worth half of that to the individual broker.

Interesting that some believe that brokers have little influence when advising an owner about what to ask but have great power when it comes to persuading that same owner on what to take. Neither is particularly accurate.

The reality is that there will always be sellers who want what they want. Should a broker turn that listing down? Maybe sometimes they should as they run the risk of wasting time and money marketing something that is not realistically for sale. OTOH, the broker will receive inquiry on the ad which may mean selling something else. Business decision.

Reputable listing brokers are all about selling the boat and getting the seller the maximum. That is their job and also their fiduciary duty. The latter is a legality that is often overlooked in these discussions. Do some research on Agency Law and you will see what I mean. Remember that legally brokers are generally considered agents not salesmen. Different thing entirely.

As part of getting the seller the maximum, the broker has the responsibility to educate the seller on the current market. If the seller’s idea of what the maximum is differs from what the broker believes it to be then the broker makes the case and the seller, not the broker, decides what the price will be.

BTW, recommending a listing price is a lot more complicated then looking at a list of boats on YW. There are many other factors to consider.

At the end of the day the market consists of Sellers, Buyers and Brokers of widely differing knowledge, motivation and ethics. Making sweeping generalities about it is pretty much useless.
jorgenl likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #78  
Old 07-21-2013
pdqaltair's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 1,940
Thanks: 1
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 6
pdqaltair is on a distinguished road
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
When Maine refers to "2%'ers" I think he is referring to those rare boats out there that are pristine - in new or better than new condition.

In those case, a "bargain" price would be better compared to a new boat price rather than the used market range for the same or similar boats.

If you use that perspective it's easy to see a relatively expensive boat as a bargain. Buying what amounts to a new boat for say 60% of the new price compared to paying say 30% of new for a typical, well used boat that requires a significant investment for the "usual" upgrades can be an astute purchase.
I've sold every boat I've owned--they were in good shape when I bought them and I owned each for about 8 years--for MORE than I paid. The reasons:

* Models that were in-demand due to solid construction and good design.
* Maintained in good condition. This included minor refitting as needed, not simply replacement of what broke. Engines, rigging--what ever was needed to keep them in good condition. My notion of "good condition" is relatively strict. In one case I rebuilt the trailer (axles, bearings, wheels, tires and lighting) even though one broker though this was silly and was not interested in listing a "specialty boat." I sold her in 3 weeks without a broker (several offers); the purchaser flew up to see her, put her on the trailer and dragged her 1500 miles behind a rental car.
* Some additional refit/paint as needed just before sale. There is no point in leaving relatively simple things for the next guy, if you can do them for less than he fears they will cost. If you know your boat, you should, in theory at least, no how to maintain her better than the next guy. Make it look like you care.

I'm comfortable that none of my buyers had problems in the near term.

As Mainsail said, "condition, condition, condition" + in-demand design.
__________________
(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #79  
Old 07-21-2013
mark2gmtrans's Avatar
sailing soon
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 802
Thanks: 2
Thanked 29 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 1
mark2gmtrans is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to mark2gmtrans
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Actually, it's still scary as hell. But I'm getting more used to it. I really does make me (and the boys) feel SO good being on that boat. It's so big and nice - we just can't believe it.

I plan to do a series of write-ups on BFS that will go through the every step of the process. I paid cash for her. I think this was a good way to go for us - though it was seriously sobering wiring that wad.
Buying a boat is different in that the next one I buy is going to be my home for a long while, and as with any home purchase there are little surprises lurking in the darkness to worry me and take from my little piles of cash. I am just resigned to doing it and dealing with the issues as they arise because to me the value of the boat is the value of the time I will be spending on it and the happiness I find while on it. Like the credit card people say "priceless" which I am guessing is the value you place on the time you and the smacklings spend on your boat.

I am looking forward to making the wire transfer, but man I am not going to lie and say I will not be having a Maalox moment or two along the way LOL.
__________________
It is good to learn from your mistakes, but much better to learn from the mistakes of others...
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #80  
Old 07-21-2013
JulieMor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 853
Thanks: 47
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 3
JulieMor is on a distinguished road
Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2gmtrans View Post
the value of the boat is the value of the time I will be spending on it and the happiness I find while on it.
Well said.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Boat worth price? cd25 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 12 08-06-2012 11:36 AM
what do you think my boat is worth? NY-36 Dbltime Boat Buyers & Sellers Forum 32 10-28-2011 09:35 PM
Is this boat worth saving? dylanwinter1 General Discussion (sailing related) 18 05-31-2011 09:20 PM
Beachcat Sailing Series at Fort Worth Boat Club, Fort Worth, TX (The Beachcats) NewsReader News Feeds 0 02-12-2007 03:15 PM
Gift Boat--Worth it? Tikimama Boat Review and Purchase Forum 7 08-04-2003 11:07 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:43 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012