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  #81  
Old 07-21-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
So a $20K repower may only be worth $5K to the lender, even right after work is completed. On older boats it may have no value at all. .
I think it is worse than that.
My saying is that buying a boat is the most efficient way to convert dollars into dimes.
A brand new Catalina 309 out the door ready to sale costs about 120,000
A 1985 Catalina 30 costs about 12,000.
If you put a new motor in your 1985 boat that costs 15,000 with new tanks, prop, shaft, cutlass etc you 1985 boat might boat might be worth 20,000 if everything else is clean.

Not dollars to quarters, dollars to dimes.

Now the really scary thing is if you live in a sales tax state like ct you have to pay 6%+ tax. If you buy the boat keep it for a year then decide to sell you have to pay the broker.
You pay 100k for the boat 6k for tax and 10k to the broker to sell.
If you sell it for what you paid for it your 100k is now 84k.


But you almost certainly will have put some money into the boat the first year. Also you probably will not get exactly what you paid as the boat is one year older so a 20% loss in principle is pretty much a minimum.




So you better keep the boat you buy for a long time.
smackdaddy, JulieMor and Jiminri like this.
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Last edited by davidpm; 07-21-2013 at 10:58 PM.
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  #82  
Old 07-21-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

I once sold cars for 6 weeks - shortly after I graduated from college and was looking for my 1st 'real' job. I'll never forget one of the tactics this Toyota dealership instructed us on and expected us to do.

If a customer came in and said they wanted to look at Camries, we would immediately ask what their monthly budget for a payment was. Typically they would say something like $250 or $300 month (or whatever). We would then walk the customer over to the Corollas and start telling them the features of the Corollas.

The customer would then say something like "I'm sorry, I said I was interested in a Camry". We were instructed to look the customer in the eye and say something along the lines of "At $250/month you can't afford a Camry, that is why I was showing you a Corolla...if you really want a Camry, you need to get your thinking up."

The whole idea was to obliterate what the customer was expecting to pay for a car and to raise the bar to what the dealership was expecting them to pay for a car. I think many sailboat owners and brokers want to set their starting point of the negotiating bar as high as they can. Additionally, many sailboat owners have an emotional attachment to their boats that gets reflected in their asking price.

Over time if a boat is overpriced and does not sell, the seller has a white elephant on their hands and begins to understand that they need to adjust down.

The reason that I brought up the car tactic is that it can work both ways. An informed potential buyer can bluntly let a boat owner know that they need to 'get their thinking down'. When an owner or broker shows you the boat and asks "What do you think?" there is nothing wrong with saying something along the lines of "Well, I looked at another boat of the same model and year as this one last week that had sails that were replaced 3 years ago and had less than 1,000 hours on the engine that was $15K less than your asking price."

On a side note...looking at listings on Yachtworld, I am continually amazed at the number of boats for sale that have pictures with clutter all over the boat they are trying to sell. Does it not dawn on these sellers that prior to putting the boat listing up and taking the photos that will serve as a window to potential buyers that maybe they should take a day or two and remove all the crap that they have been storing in their boats?? As a potential buyer that not only makes me think that they have neglected their boats but that the boat probably has not been actually sailed in quite a while because the minute they had any kind of breeze and the boat heeled to any degree, all that crap would be getting tossed around the inside of the cabin.
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  #83  
Old 07-21-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lgherb View Post
On a side note...looking at listings on Yachtworld, I am continually amazed at the number of boats for sale that have pictures with clutter all over the boat they are trying to sell. Does it not dawn on these sellers that prior to putting the boat listing up and taking the photos that will serve as a window to potential buyers that maybe they should take a day or two and remove all the crap that they have been storing in their boats?? As a potential buyer that not only makes me think that they have neglected their boats but that the boat probably has not been actually sailed in quite a while because the minute they had any kind of breeze and the boat heeled to any degree, all that crap would be getting tossed around the inside of the cabin.
That's the one that gets me too - I can't believe they don't even sweep it out of the cameras frame. Clueless or just lazy?

I once saw a project boat with pics like that but they used humour - "Full sink" was the caption for the galley shot and it was indeed full - of dirty dishes.
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  #84  
Old 07-22-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

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Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
That's the one that gets me too - I can't believe they don't even sweep it out of the cameras frame. Clueless or just lazy?

I once saw a project boat with pics like that but they used humour - "Full sink" was the caption for the galley shot and it was indeed full - of dirty dishes.
I guess one I looked at a few months ago should have had a caption saying full head....

It was.

And I have posted on here on one of the threads before about the holy crap I cannot see the expensive yacht you are trying to sell me for the CRAP in the photos, underwear, scuba gear, cushions, dishes, and just plain old garbage. To my way of thinking if the yoyo that owned the boat in the past and the idiot trying to broker it for him cannot understand that they need to clean it up before the photos are taken, they most likely cannot understand the need for routine maintenance.
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  #85  
Old 07-22-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

We had three offers on our home in 6 business days after we put it on the market ourseleves FSBO

Everyone commented how nice the house showed, including things mechanical like a new HVAC unit.

We got more than our asking price.

Why don't more people prep their boats for sale properly....that could be a whole other thread, I suspect more often than not...they don't want to deal with the thought of selling the dream
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  #86  
Old 07-22-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Shawn, you may have it partly right, and it may also have to do with the fact that some people are just utterly clueless about cleanliness. About five years ago some friends and I were out on a boat near Galveston, a couple we had met near Kemah earlier in the day showed up and invited us aboard to see their boat, I was shocked, I mean literally shocked. They had one of those 50+ foot ketches with pretty much everything on it, and it was an absolute pigsty. They had that huge boat and had to move things off the settee for me and my gf to be able to sit down. We declined an invitation to dine with them that evening for very obvious reasons.

If I were a commissioned sales representative I would have to tell them that I could not represent the boat if it was not clean and in squared away condition as far as the things left on board. I mean poor sales guy has to go on the boat and move the junk to take the photos, and obviously some of them move nothing. I know all about restoration projects that got abandoned half way through, and other things that leave a big mess, but a boat that sold new for $200K or better and is only eight years old should not look like a garbage disposal ate a laundry hamper and aisle 7 at West Marine and then puked it up in the boat.
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  #87  
Old 07-22-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

I wonder why the boat ownership thing is so important? With as little as most folks sail their own boats, wouldn't it be better economically, time wise, maintenance wise to join a sailing club or charter group and just pay for the days you use the boat? I see the same sailors here lamenting the "supposed" high cost of ownership, the poorly maintained boats they are looking at, over priced and the indifference of brokers to their needs.

With many future owners living/sailing in short season sailing locations I wonder if the rental/lease/charter/sailing club is a better way to go?
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  #88  
Old 07-22-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

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Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
...wouldn't it be better economically, time wise, maintenance wise to join a sailing club or charter group and just pay for the days you use the boat?
For some people, yes. And a lot of people do that.

Others want to have their boat available anytime, and like the idea that it is just theirs--no on else is messing it up, or using it this weekend when they want it.

Of course, there are a lot of people who are just in love with the IDEA of owning a boat. It's a dream. They get the boat and reality sets in. They use it a lot the first year. Less the second. Hardly at all the third. And then the boat just sits, completely unused, for the next several years until they decide to sell it.

That's one reason so many of the "for sale" pictures you see are several years old, and why the owner often has no clue what condition his boat is in. He hasn't set foot on it in three years or more!
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  #89  
Old 07-22-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Those boats with pictures of clutter make me wonder how serious the seller really is. I've seen pictures that tell me the boat has been poorly maintained yet the listing price is at the high end. I imagine the seller walking into the broker's office thinking, "I wonder how much it's really worth? Can I make a profit on it?" And if the broker accepts the seller's value as the listing price...

When I referred to serious sellers above, this is one of the scenarios I was thinking about. I've seen some here criticize what they called "tire kickers" as wasting the time of the seller. But the seller who is testing the market wastes the time of the buyer too. Maybe they should be called "buyer kickers."

"Why are they selling?" For the buyer, the answer to this can be a great piece of information to determine just how serious the seller is.
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Old 07-22-2013
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Re: What Is A Boat Really Worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
Those boats with pictures of clutter make me wonder how serious the seller really is. I've seen pictures that tell me the boat has been poorly maintained yet the listing price is at the high end. I imagine the seller walking into the broker's office thinking, "I wonder how much it's really worth? Can I make a profit on it?" And if the broker accepts the seller's value as the listing price...

When I referred to serious sellers above, this is one of the scenarios I was thinking about. I've seen some here criticize what they called "tire kickers" as wasting the time of the seller. But the seller who is testing the market wastes the time of the buyer too. Maybe they should be called "buyer kickers."

"Why are they selling?" For the buyer, the answer to this can be a great piece of information to determine just how serious the seller is.
I recently went over 1000 miles round trip to look at a boat that was called "turnkey, ready for cruising" in the ad, and yet when I got there it was anything but, and when I confronted the owner with the obvious defects he called me a tire kicker, I wanted to kick him in the tires. I was soooo angry, but it is part of the process and I was also able to visit some friends. Next time I will have the seller take a video camera on board.
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