Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft" - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 108 Old 08-13-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

Just like the Masthead look, purely aesthetics for me. Tartan 33 is fractional and has right keel depth and turn of speed, but I like the Tartan 33R looks better, but, of course, it has a 6+ foot draft.......
Might have to look at a few, even sail them, and maybe I can be a convert...not sure.

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post #12 of 108 Old 08-13-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

@Chuck, I'm favoring the 36' only because the PHRF is 147 vice 159 for Wing and 12 pts lower for Fin.
But, I do like the Aft head on the 34 better.....
How do you like the performance of the Wing? I'd really like to get your in depth thoughts on that, and your buddies if possible. Any comparisons to fins would help too.
Thanks.
Rob

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post #13 of 108 Old 08-13-2013
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Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

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Originally Posted by Robcooper0767 View Post
@Chuck, I'm favoring the 36' only because the PHRF is 147 vice 159 for Wing and 12 pts lower for Fin.
But, I do like the Aft head on the 34 better.....
How do you like the performance of the Wing? I'd really like to get your in depth thoughts on that, and your buddies if possible. Any comparisons to fins would help too.
Thanks.
Rob
I talked to a lot of C30 owners before we bought our boat. Everybody said the same thing - unless you're racing you won't notice the difference between the fin and the wing.

You also won't notice the difference between a 147 rated boat and a 159 rated boat.

In the real world the performance of two boats rated that close, sailing side by side will have more to do with the condition of the sails, how the boat is loaded and the skills of the captain.

Find a boat with a layout you like, in good condition and go enjoy the bay with your family.
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95 Catalina 30 Island Time

The sail, the play of its pulse so like our own lives: so thin and yet so full of life, so noiseless when it labors hardest, so noisy and impatient when least effective." - Henry David Thoreau
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post #14 of 108 Old 08-13-2013
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Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

I cannot argue with your sense of what looks right to you, since we all have our own personal aesthetic sense and when it comes to buying a boat, what matters is what looks good to you. But in terms of ease of handling, once you try a fractional rig, you might learn to avert your eyes.

The only trouble with the wing that I can see is that if you run aground, they are much harder to free. There was a time when this was a frequent topic around here. I spoke to a number of people with wing keel boats who also had owned conventional keels, as well as tow boat operators. While some wing keel operators ademantly denied that there was any problem freeing a wing keeled boat, the vast majority of wing keel owners and all of the tow boat operators that I spoke to said that wing keels are much harder to free when they run aground.

To me, here on the Chesapeake a wing keel is a deal breaker. If shoal draft is needed, and performance is even a remote priority either a shoal keel with a bulb or a shoal keel with a centerboard will generally outperform a wing keel, without the difficulty in freeing the boat in a grounding....

Jeff


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post #15 of 108 Old 08-13-2013
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Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

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The only trouble with the wing that I can see is that if you run aground, they are much harder to free. There was a time when this was a frequent topic around here. I spoke to a number of people with wing keel boats who also had owned conventional keels, as well as tow boat operators. While some wing keel operators ademantly denied that there was any problem freeing a wing keeled boat, the vast majority of wing keel owners and all of the tow boat operators that I spoke to said that wing keels are much harder to free when they run aground.

Jeff
Jeff,
I've seen this sentiment on SailNet quite a few times, and almost always from Chesapeake Bay sailors.

Sailing Barnegat Bay, where bumping bottom is just part of sailing, I haven't had trouble getting off on the occasional soft grounding (we have a wing).

Did the folks you spoke with make a distinction between a mud and sand bottom? I would think mud would have a suction effect on your keel.

Jim

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The sail, the play of its pulse so like our own lives: so thin and yet so full of life, so noiseless when it labors hardest, so noisy and impatient when least effective." - Henry David Thoreau
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post #16 of 108 Old 08-13-2013
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Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

Chesapeake is a mix of mud and sand, but there was no discussion of bottom types.

In talking with the towboat operators, they unanimously concluded that it just took more force to free similar sized boats with wing keels and that various freeing strategies (fishtailing, bow downing, standing the boat up, or heeling it over) did not seem to work as well.

I had a similar response from some of the owners. There seemed to be a sense that their wing keels had been seriously planted and they were unable to free them when they might have been able to get out with a previous boat.


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post #17 of 108 Old 08-13-2013
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Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

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Originally Posted by Robcooper0767 View Post
@Chuck, I'm favoring the 36' only because the PHRF is 147 vice 159 for Wing and 12 pts lower for Fin.
But, I do like the Aft head on the 34 better.....
How do you like the performance of the Wing? I'd really like to get your in depth thoughts on that, and your buddies if possible. Any comparisons to fins would help too.
Thanks.
Rob
Obviously I don't want to sail a slug, but....things like PHRF ratings, full keels being able to point higher than wings and other "performance" issues really don't concern me at all.

Catalina 34
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post #18 of 108 Old 08-13-2013
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Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

I find that upwind performance matters a lot to me for cruising. I'd rather be sailing than motoring, and being able to point higher and go faster upwind is often the difference between sailing and motoring.

Based on my month long cruise in lower BC this last July I may be in the minority. We were often in short company of sailboats who actually used their sails, especially when going upwind. However we had fun "racing" the others who do like to sail.

I'm no longer participating on SailNet.
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post #19 of 108 Old 08-13-2013
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Get the 10M

and blow away everyone of those boats. The thing (10M) is a tank yet goes like a scalded dog. My mooring neighbor has a Catalina 30. He leaves the mooring 5 minutes before we do under motor then starts sailing when he gets about 300 yards away. We leave our mooring under sail and catch him within 10-15 minutes.

Not many boats in it's size range, with it's roominess, and sailing characteristics going to touch it with re: performance. Often you'll have to go up in length/size or much newer design to touch her. For a boat that can be bought for around 15K well equipped, it's a real bargain if you want a fast, comfy, cruiser/racer.

The draft isn't really a factor. In the Chessy, unless your draft is <5 ft, your not really going to be gunk holeing anyway.

If you liked my advice/response, give me some rep points. If you didn't......well what do you expect, it was free.
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post #20 of 108 Old 08-13-2013
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Re: Get the 10M

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...My mooring neighbor has a Catalina 30. He leaves the mooring 5 minutes before we do under motor then starts sailing when he gets about 300 yards away. We leave our mooring under sail and catch him within 10-15 minutes....
*hmph* Fastest is not always the bestest.

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