Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft" - Page 8 - SailNet Community

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  #71  
Old 08-19-2013
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Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

I guess the question boils down to (for CB's),....If you take care of them on an annual basis, making it part of your boat work over the winter haul out, inspection, "alignment", cable, line or winch, are they really any more problematic than any other piece of sailboat gear, or part of the boat (ie. oil change, winterizing water lines, engine, taking care of sails........you all know the endless list of things to do.
Are CB's, when taken care of, just another "part"?
@Chef2sail:
I'm open to CBs for the reasons you mention and my question above stands to all CB'ers.
I was on a friends Pearson 34 just the other day and he explained, and it was right there in front of my eyes, on the port side of the cockpit, on the vertical "wall" under the seating area (like where some engine controls are), there was a cleat and no kidding, regular line, probably 7/16's, that came up from a slot and was simply cleated off. I notice some of the other CB boats had winch-like setups in various locations, cockpit, table in cabin, etc.


R
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  #72  
Old 08-19-2013
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Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

@chef2sail:
Noted above link and question about this boat. Do you know the answer about this keel?
"Here's one that has a 5'5" keel (That I noted in earlier page asking if this has an "unconventional" 5'5" keel. a C&C option keel, or something someone did through keel modification?).
1984 C&C Mark III 35 sailboat for sale in Michigan
1984 C&C Mark III 35 sailboat for sale in Michigan

Is that a Wing derivation, or something someone came up with on their own? It looks to clean, like a manufacturer would do, but how can I find out if you don't know? Can you (or I post this somewhere and find out without me reaching out the the owner/seller - until I'm ready to discuss all the specifics since I like this boat.
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  #73  
Old 08-19-2013
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Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

You're seeing major differences in centerboard hardware because there are major differences in boats with a centerboard (no ballast) and a swing keel (lots of ballast) or weighted centerboard (somewhere in between).

My understanding is that swing keels are the ones that you really need to keep up with. Having a 1000lb or heavier centerboard swing down with no notice would be a major liability.

A lot of the larger boats with centerboard appear to be built with ballast in a shoal keel, then a centerboard that swings down to improve windward performance. That style of centerboard can be a lot lighter and require a lot less hardware to raise and lower.

I have no personal experience with this, I freak out if I'm sailing in less than 10' of water (almost never happens around Seattle).
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  #74  
Old 08-19-2013
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Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

C&C cb is one of the line led back from the mast to the cabin top winch. We have it through a Garhauer triple rope clutch so its a simple as winching in...throw the clutch. No need to tie off. Can't drop it down though, must be lowered with tension or the boat shudders as its weighted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robcooper0767 View Post
I guess the question boils down to (for CB's),....If you take care of them on an annual basis, making it part of your boat work over the winter haul out, inspection, "alignment", cable, line or winch, are they really any more problematic than any other piece of sailboat gear, or part of the boat (ie. oil change, winterizing water lines, engine, taking care of sails........you all know the endless list of things to do.
Are CB's, when taken care of, just another "part"?
@Chef2sail:
I'm open to CBs for the reasons you mention and my question above stands to all CB'ers.
I was on a friends Pearson 34 just the other day and he explained, and it was right there in front of my eyes, on the port side of the cockpit, on the vertical "wall" under the seating area (like where some engine controls are), there was a cleat and no kidding, regular line, probably 7/16's, that came up from a slot and was simply cleated off. I notice some of the other CB boats had winch-like setups in various locations, cockpit, table in cabin, etc.


R
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  #75  
Old 08-19-2013
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Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

As to C&C hull being cored, most are not, just topside s are and many have reinforced areas of fiberglass thre equipment bedded like winches etc. my hull is not cored.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robcooper0767 View Post
I guess the question boils down to (for CB's),....If you take care of them on an annual basis, making it part of your boat work over the winter haul out, inspection, "alignment", cable, line or winch, are they really any more problematic than any other piece of sailboat gear, or part of the boat (ie. oil change, winterizing water lines, engine, taking care of sails........you all know the endless list of things to do.
Are CB's, when taken care of, just another "part"?
@Chef2sail:
I'm open to CBs for the reasons you mention and my question above stands to all CB'ers.
I was on a friends Pearson 34 just the other day and he explained, and it was right there in front of my eyes, on the port side of the cockpit, on the vertical "wall" under the seating area (like where some engine controls are), there was a cleat and no kidding, regular line, probably 7/16's, that came up from a slot and was simply cleated off. I notice some of the other CB boats had winch-like setups in various locations, cockpit, table in cabin, etc.


R
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C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
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(photos by Joe McCary)
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  #76  
Old 08-20-2013
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By chance...do you know Julie?
chef2sail and jameswilson29 like this.
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1982 Tartan 37 CB - Hull #358


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  #77  
Old 08-20-2013
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Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robcooper0767 View Post
@Dave,
What year is your 35 MKIII?
1983.....btw the chain plates are very robust the are horizontal SS plates 8x6 under the deck ...bolted to o longitudinal SS plate 2ft x 6 inches straight down to the stringers bolted to another horizontal SS plate through the cabinetry glassed to the stringers. Standard standing rigging is rod which adds to the stiffness of the boat.
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  #78  
Old 08-21-2013
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Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

In strong consideration are the Sabre 34 CB and the C&C 35 CB. I see a 37 (1985) in Newburyport, MA on Yachtworld that looks nice...CB boat. The newer 37-2's are probably out of range ($ wise), I like the 36 and 37 medium sized double (primary) windows in the cabin, also the 37 has the smaller ports up front in the vee (remind me of my Pearson) and that's a look I like. Also, like the dinette setup on the 35-3 (the large single window is noted to have leaking issues) and on the 36-1. It's interesting that the 35 and 35 are really 34.5 and 35.5, whereas, the 37 is 37.5, but has opposable settees (the more traditional interior on an early 80's boat). Noticed the one in Newburyport above modified the settee to be a partial wraparond and it looks nice (I've thought about doing this on a few traditional settee boats, like the Pearson 34 and possibily the Sabre MK1 to get that "comfortable corner" seating). The 37-2 (late 80's) is really 39.5 (aka 37/40).......who named these and what logic did they use....ha ha!
Yep, it all comes down to compromises and condition.....none of the C&C's are off the table, believe me.

I've got to note my interest in sailing fast - both up and downwind, that is part of the sailing fun for me. I do still enjoy going upwind much more than downwind.....it gets the blood going, bigger rush. Yes, the relaxing downwind run can be calming, and fast, but I like to work when I sail. I'm always tinkering, trimming, experimenting with the Geometry......doing the math and engineering to tame the elements - why I like to sail and not be a powerboater......(I do like to fish, another thread, another time!).....Now, I've never owned a powerful downwind sailboat, so it may be more fun than I realize, but I'll need to find that out.

The idea of "motorsailing" as my friend who has a very beautiful 30 footer with a large full keel (shoal - an Islander, I think) often does, is a last resort for me. I didn't get into sailing to motor around......I'd rather have a boat that can get the most out of the elements and be that family comfortable boat, hence, the thread.

I hear and have read the Sabre's are fast and can pace the C&C's, they are very well built and have a following that is almost rabid (that's good!). 34MK1's are much slower that 34MKII's, and now we are back to cost, the MKII's are probably above the $ threshold, I am definitely keeping Sabre's on the list, but can anyone shed light on the MKI's performance versus a C&C 35-3?, or the above mentioned 36/37's? Again, just for understanding and thoughts, I know what the PHRF's say for the CB's on C&C 35-3 (or even the 33-2 go go smaller) vs the Sabre 34 CB and it' not numerically close....A while ago the thread noted that 20 seconds is not huge, so don't worry about it. Also, I respect the notations that talk about experience and sail condition often trumps PHRF. Comments on Sabres vs C&C's in speed and comfort?
I know I'm looking at the "right boats" for what I want. You all are bringing up all the considerations I need to process to go out and see the ones that suit me. And, of course, in person can always result in a "nope - off the list".
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  #79  
Old 08-21-2013
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Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

Rob, I'm a Sabre 34 MK1 owner, but I'm not rabid about it. In fact, as I've been following this thread, I've wondered if you'd be happy with a Sabre 34 MK1.
From a space perspective for a family.

It's a pretty traditional layout with two opposing settees. I also happen to like a Dinette arrangement like I had on my Bristol 29 years ago. I've thought about it. But you'd lose a water tank to achieve that. The most comfortable berth on my Sabre is the pullout in the salon.

With the dining table dropped and open, you can't easily access the head forward.
( most of my dining is done on deck, so it's not a real problem for me)

An aft head would be nice. To drop wet gear, and not have to walk through the salon.
The 362's and the 386 moved the head aft. There's not a full shower in the 34, rather the old sit on the seat...shower head on a hose style.

The Centerboard is not a problem. It's not weighted and I really don't need it until the wind pipes up on a beam reach or above. In 5-10 kn winds you'd probably not even bother with it.

Regarding speed. I don't race my boat, so I can't directly compare speed of a Sabre 34 vs a CC 35. But, I like to go fast and I don't, in practice, see many boats my size running away from me. I put new sails on a few years ago and I'm quite pleased with her performance. I personally see no need for a 150 genoa. I removed the old one and put on a 135. I also went to a loose footed main, which has helped light air performance.

You're more than welcome to come up for a sail...if you want to kick the tires, so to speak. I'm always happy to have company. We could even fly the gennaker.
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  #80  
Old 08-21-2013
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Re: Tartan(s), Sabre, Pearson(s), C&C(s), Catalina(s) - "Chesapeake Draft"

Tempest,
I chuckled on your comment about not being "rabid"....I was trying to think of a nice way to say that Sabre really does have one of the most loyal followings around, but then I remember the comments from the CAL, C&C, Pearson, etc owners who all love and support their boats (as they should!).
Yes, you've hit on the concerns of the traditional layout perfectly (don't understand the loss of water tank with Dinette comment since I don't know the Sabre setup....Can you explain that one? Does it apply to other Dinette boats (other manuafacturers) from that time period?
Dining on the deck is what most do. The table will probably be used in the evenings or on long sails when the Mom and daughter get bored or need some coloring book time and the table gets pulled out (or puzzles, whatever).
I thought the MKII's moved the shower aft, but last night looked at sailboatdata.com and saw I was mistaken, obviously thinking about another manufacturer (one of them moved the head aft in a later 34' configuration I think, but since we've talked about so many boats, don't remember which one it was).
I do know that the MKII is supposed to be "faster" than the MKI, and I do appreciate your information on the MKI.....the idea of "boats my size running away from me" may move the MKI down a bit lower down, but not out as they are wonderfully made and known for outstanding quality, maintain their value....a good thing for a used boat.
I have to give it to Catalina, with the Dinette layout, the aft head (I mentioned the shortened salon that was visually challenging)....they seem to have a pretty darn good package, Pearson 33-2 and 34-2 have this layout too...it's nice but a dinette boat with a forward head is still ok. Funding may drive the very traditional setup, and I just live with it.
I'll keep you on my list of very nice persons who offered me the opportunity to sail on their boats - thank you.

I will not limit my thanks to only offers of sailing, I continually want to thank everyone for their help on this thread.
Rob
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