Would you buy an early 80's cored hull boat? - SailNet Community
 11Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 61 Old 09-27-2013 Thread Starter
Member
 
contrarian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Must keep this a secret... see cruisning area
Posts: 79
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Would you buy an early 80's cored hull boat?

I know that the cored hull issue has been kicked around for some time now but I am wondering if those who support the cored hull concept would consider buying a 30-35 year old cored hull boat. Since I have started seriously considering buying another boat I have begun to have doubts about a cored hull that is that long in the tooth so to speak. I know that the chances of water intrusion would increase with age but I don't have any idea of what the odds would be or to what extent. If anyone has experience with this Please enlighten me.
contrarian is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 61 Old 09-28-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 522
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 22 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Would you buy an early 80's cored hull boat?

Sure. Water intrusion is most likely where the hull has been penetrated, for example, cockpit drains, exhaust discharge, through hulls, knot log, depth sounder, etc. You should inspect these areas particularly carefully. Sometimes you'll find that the manufacturer has solid glass in these areas.
Initially I'd be more concerned about leaks in the deck particularly around the chainplates.
Hudsonian is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 61 Old 09-28-2013
Senior Moment Member
 
SloopJonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 11,600
Thanks: 60
Thanked 72 Times in 69 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Would you buy an early 80's cored hull boat?

A survey should spot a wet cored hull. Decks are of WAY more concern.
killarney_sailor likes this.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
SloopJonB is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 61 Old 09-28-2013
4ksb expert.
 
SHNOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: East Stroudsburg, PA
Posts: 1,669
Thanks: 11
Thanked 83 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Would you buy an early 80's cored hull boat?

you mean balsa cored... foam cored is ok... you know like a Capri... hehehe

"Rum Line" a 1982, S2 7.9 - Production boat limit tester, blue-water bucket owner, with wine taste on a beer budget.
SHNOOL is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 61 Old 09-28-2013
Senior Smart Aleck
 
jameswilson29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 2,152
Thanks: 34
Thanked 70 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Would you buy an early 80's cored hull boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by contrarian View Post
I know that the cored hull issue has been kicked around for some time now but I am wondering if those who support the cored hull concept would consider buying a 30-35 year old cored hull boat. Since I have started seriously considering buying another boat I have begun to have doubts about a cored hull that is that long in the tooth so to speak. I know that the chances of water intrusion would increase with age but I don't have any idea of what the odds would be or to what extent. If anyone has experience with this Please enlighten me.
Yes I would, after a thorough marine survey on the hard and the expectation that I might be repairing the hull at some point at great expense/inconvenience. The answer to your question depends on the builder and the maintenance. Some hulls were only cored about the waterline, others the entire hull. C&Cs, J/boats and early Olsons were all well-built cored boats that are still out there winning races and cruising.

Wet core is not the end of the world. It can be repaired and it does not necessarily diminish structural strength to the point where you would be in peril.

There are some more thorough discussions on this topic over in Sailing Anarchy, because more racing sailboats than cruising sailboats were cored. It seems many buy cored boats with the expectation that they will initially repair the trouble spots, often the transom with an external-hung rudder, and thru-hulls, and monitor the hull for degradation.
jameswilson29 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 61 Old 09-28-2013
Dirt Free
 
boatpoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,170
Thanks: 9
Thanked 33 Times in 32 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Would you buy an early 80's cored hull boat?

I personally would prefer a solid FRP hull but some cored hulls of that vintage are still as dry and sound as the day they were built. it all depends on the builder. In those days a QC program was a rare thing and some builders built great boats on Tuesday and crap on Thursday. Any boat with a cored hull (whatever it's cored with) should be out of the water for 48hrs before survey.

Numbers off the top of my head ...... My experience shows that J-boats and Nonsuchs have a 50-50 chance of serious core degradation in the bottom, C&C's approx. 30%.

The cost to re-core the deck on a typical 30' sailboat in Southern Ontario is somewhere over 10k. I was recently involved with a Nonsuch 30 bottom core job that was quoted at 60k.

The cost to recore a bottom is much higher than decks because of the difficulty of working overhead and the extreme amount of fairing involved.

be careful and you can still find a good one.

Dirt People Scare me
boatpoker is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 61 Old 09-28-2013
Senior Member
 
MikeOReilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 1,680
Thanks: 167
Thanked 78 Times in 69 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
I own a 1977-built boat with an airex foam cored hull. No problems, and many nice pluses over a solid hull.

I would most definitely examine the hull closely before purchasing. Pay close attention to any owner-installed thru fittings. Ensure you know the history of the boat (any hard groundings). Get a good survey. Research the original build quality.

If the answers all come back positive, then I'd have no concerns buying the boat.

Why go fast, when you can go slow.
MikeOReilly is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 61 Old 09-28-2013 Thread Starter
Member
 
contrarian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Must keep this a secret... see cruisning area
Posts: 79
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Would you buy an early 80's cored hull boat?

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I personally would prefer a solid FRP hull but some cored hulls of that vintage are still as dry and sound as the day they were built. it all depends on the builder. In those days a QC program was a rare thing and some builders built great boats on Tuesday and crap on Thursday. Any boat with a cored hull (whatever it's cored with) should be out of the water for 48hrs before survey.
Boat Poker, you make some interesting points especially the 48 hours on the hard before a survey is initiated. This was part of my concern as well, in that I believe there is always saturation before de-lamination and the possibility that it could be missed in the survey. Of course I wouldn’t have the expertise of Dave Pascoe ( Cheap Shot… Sorry ) to make the determination. There are posts on this forum regarding saturated hull cores that do give me pause, one in particular by Sailing Dog with respect to a mounting screw for a bilge pump that created an enormous amount of saturation. I know this probably seems a little paranoid for the purchase of a <30k boat but for me it’s probably equivalent to Bill Gates buying a Billion dollar boat (can’t comment on Larry Ellison). Anyway the boat in question is a Tartan 33 which has coring below the waterline and is one of the boats on my short list. As I put the pluses and minuses down on paper I am counting the cored hull as a minus. It’s not a deal breaker but it definitely has my attention.

While I am at it I thought I would throw out some of my thoughts on my short list and see if I can get any additional feedback. What I like about the Tartan is the Scheel keel which gives shallow draft without some of the pitfalls of the wing keel although it is a double edged sword in that the pointing ability of the boat is compromised. I like the cockpit configuration of the boat and I just like the way the boat looks…sweet lines topsides anyway, down below not so much but definitely acceptable. The downside is I don’t think it would be a great light air boat which I kinda need, doesn’t point well and then there’s the cored hull issue.

Other boats on the short list are the Beneteau First series from the mid eighties, 345,325,305 in that order.
The only ones I am considering are the tiller steered shoal draft versions. While I don’t find these quite as aesthetically pleasing as the Tartan they are quite acceptable in that regard and I find that the interior layout below to be superior. I believe that the 325 and 345 even with the shoal draft would point higher and sail faster in light wind than any of the other boats on my list but I am guessing on the basis of PHRF ratings and not on actual experience.

The other boats rounding out the list are the Niagara 31, the Ericson 32-3 and finally the Pearson 10m simply because it is local, can be bought cheap and Dan Pfiefer has a terrific support site, otherwise I really wouldn’t consider the Pearson because of the draft.
contrarian is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 61 Old 09-28-2013
Senior Member
 
chef2sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,096
Thanks: 30
Thanked 58 Times in 54 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: Would you buy an early 80's cored hull boat?

Not all 80 C&C are cored boats. Our 83 MKIII is not except the topside is.

Are well taken maintained of cored boat has no other difficulties than any other boat. The balsa core adds strength and stiffness.

Dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
Yes I would, after a thorough marine survey on the hard and the expectation that I might be repairing the hull at some point at great expense/inconvenience. The answer to your question depends on the builder and the maintenance. Some hulls were only cored about the waterline, others the entire hull. C&Cs, J/boats and early Olsons were all well-built cored boats that are still out there winning races and cruising.

Wet core is not the end of the world. It can be repaired and it does not necessarily diminish structural strength to the point where you would be in peril.

There are some more thorough discussions on this topic over in Sailing Anarchy, because more racing sailboats than cruising sailboats were cored. It seems many buy cored boats with the expectation that they will initially repair the trouble spots, often the transom with an external-hung rudder, and thru-hulls, and monitor the hull for degradation.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner

Last edited by chef2sail; 09-28-2013 at 08:22 PM.
chef2sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 61 Old 09-28-2013
Dirt Free
 
boatpoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,170
Thanks: 9
Thanked 33 Times in 32 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Would you buy an early 80's cored hull boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Not all 80 C&C are cored boats. Our 83 MKIII is not except the topside
Dave what am I missing here, the brochures found on line for these boats say "balsa cored hull" and the ones I have looked had balsa to within 13" of the keel.

PS. I find the word topside confusing as most use it improperly. The "topside" is the area between the water line and the toe rail, is this what you meant ?

Dirt People Scare me
boatpoker is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sabre 34 Cored Hull ? weilpaul Sabre 9 10-15-2014 11:54 PM
Cored hull rayatwork Pacific Seacraft 3 07-13-2011 03:50 PM
Early 80s Airex-cored Vancouver 27 heydiddy Boat Review and Purchase Forum 1 02-26-2011 05:58 PM
Niagara 31 cored hull? Emmett71 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 21 02-09-2011 12:41 PM
In-hull transducer...Cored boat astraeus Gear & Maintenance 4 04-29-2007 11:19 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome