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Old 10-05-2013
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get out of jail "free" card - catamaran 40ft - buy 5yr used or new into charter pool

My wife and i would like to get into at 40ft catamaran and have been considering several options for eventual retirement and blue water cruising

Option 1: buy into a charter program with moorings, dream yacht, or catamaran company for 5 years then payoff balance; should we choose guaranteed income or percentage of take
Option 2: buy a 5 yr used cat
Option 3: fractional ownership such as sailtime for 5 years then payoff balance
Option 4: sell everything and buy new cat and live aboard
Option 5: save for 5 years then buy new cat

Givens are:

25 years boating experience
Wife and i are outdoors people into boating sailing diving fishing biking hiking camping - get outside people
Owned 42ft 35 year old sportfish for 12 yrs that i maintained and refurbished = handy and willing to do my own work
Asa catamaran certified having chartered cats in bvi and abacos lagoon 46 and prout 45
Monohull experience on hunter 36 fpr 5 yrs as caretaker
Live and work in south florida
Used to living on the beach but with small space and minimalist aproach = quality of life before size
Want to sail away before i cant for age reasons as i am in my late 40s in high stress business
Have $100k saved target is sub $500k new or $250k used = to mortgage or not
New option are fp lipari lagoon 39 nautitec ~ any sugestions
Build quality and resale value important = brand integrity
Currentt needs 2 weeks sailing vacation potential use on weekends in s florida
Tax savings as business

These are a lot of options and a lot of variables i know but the decision is a once in a lifetime choice. So i really appreciate the feedback
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Old 10-05-2013
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Re: get out of jail "free" card - catamaran 40ft - buy 5yr used or new into charter p

Quote:
Originally Posted by katkeyskat View Post
My wife and i would like to get into at 40ft catamaran and have been considering several options for eventual retirement and blue water cruising

Option 1: buy into a charter program with moorings, dream yacht, or catamaran company for 5 years then payoff balance; should we choose guaranteed income or percentage of take
Option 2: buy a 5 yr used cat
Option 3: fractional ownership such as sailtime for 5 years then payoff balance
Option 4: sell everything and buy new cat and live aboard
Option 5: save for 5 years then buy new cat

Givens are:

25 years boating experience
Wife and i are outdoors people into boating sailing diving fishing biking hiking camping - get outside people
Owned 42ft 35 year old sportfish for 12 yrs that i maintained and refurbished = handy and willing to do my own work
Asa catamaran certified having chartered cats in bvi and abacos lagoon 46 and prout 45
Monohull experience on hunter 36 fpr 5 yrs as caretaker
Live and work in south florida
Used to living on the beach but with small space and minimalist aproach = quality of life before size
Want to sail away before i cant for age reasons as i am in my late 40s in high stress business
Have $100k saved target is sub $500k new or $250k used = to mortgage or not
New option are fp lipari lagoon 39 nautitec ~ any sugestions
Build quality and resale value important = brand integrity
Currentt needs 2 weeks sailing vacation potential use on weekends in s florida
Tax savings as business

These are a lot of options and a lot of variables i know but the decision is a once in a lifetime choice. So i really appreciate the feedback
Welcome to the Forum. Sure you'll get a multitude of replies here. Can you use the boat as a business deduction?
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Old 10-05-2013
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Re: get out of jail "free" card - catamaran 40ft - buy 5yr used or new into charter p

Option 2 for sure!

Options 1,3,5 you're still in jail with a parole down the line.
Options 2 and 4 means freedom - but why a new Cat?
I vote for option 2.
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Old 10-06-2013
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Re: get out of jail "free" card - catamaran 40ft - buy 5yr used or new into charter p

thanks for the replies. yes the idea would be to use it as a business for the 5 years that we still need to save up for fll purchase price and offset the depreciation that way while still being able to use it for one extended vacation and on a few weekends a month locally. then in 5 years pay off the depreciated value shut down the business and use it for ourselves. then in 10 years sail away. having spent 12 years fixing up a 25+ boat i know that cost me $15k on average per year. so i really would prefer to keep that at a minimum which is why i am interested in a new boat and suffer depreciation vs repairs and upgrades. also then we would truly know her and have customized her for that eventual "parole" day.

as far a mono vs cat - once you go cat you nevr go back at least for us. i dont like the heeling on monos prefer the openess on a cat the on deck safety too. the stability on a cat even in a 6 to 8ft sea is just amazing after rolling in monos. my wife and i are not regatta sailors and we spend more time at anchor than under sail.
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Old 10-11-2013
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Re: get out of jail "free" card - catamaran 40ft - buy 5yr used or new into charter p

Have a look here for a selection of catamarans for sale by owner
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Old 10-11-2013
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Re: get out of jail "free" card - catamaran 40ft - buy 5yr used or new into charter p

Let's rephrase that:

Option 1: buy into a heavily used charter boat. (One year in charter can equal ten years in private use.)
Option 2: buy a 5 yr used cat, not from charter.
Option 3: fractional ownership leaving you with a five year old heavily used boat.
Option 4: sell everything and pay the premium for a totally new unabused boat.
Option 5: save for 5 years then pay the premium for a totally new unabused boat.

It is really only three choices, buying a used boat, a heavily used boat, or a new boat. The question of whether you want to do that now or later, is a separate one. A charter fleet boat from a good operation will be reconditioned before being released after use, but that varies with the contract and whether chartering will save you anything at all is a question you need to discuss with your accountant. Odds are, if you haven't needed a tax accountant or financial planner, it won't save you anything.

If you want to live the dream now, then the only choice is which one do you buy, now. Strike while the timing is right.
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Old 10-12-2013
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Re: get out of jail "free" card - catamaran 40ft - buy 5yr used or new into charter p

Thanks tropicat for the link and hellosailor for the advice. Combining these two replies i did find a relatively new 6 yr old 40ft admiral with loads of upgrades that is exactly what my wife and i envision. Now that i see what that owner invested in upgrades over the years, its very clear that it makes sense to us to buy a relatively new owners version cat that has been well cared for rather than rush into the charter side. So i suppose we will save up some more money and buy a well maintained owner version cat in three years.

The risks with that come with that are dollar devaluation since most cats are french or s afr i suppose and change in tax law depriciation and mortgage write offs. But thats an entirely different subject

So i suppose i will spend the next 2 years searching for that perfect cat - at least that way we will be certain of our choice eventhough its hard to sit on the beach and watch the boats go by after having had one for so many years...
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Old 10-12-2013
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Re: get out of jail "free" card - catamaran 40ft - buy 5yr used or new into charter p

Admiral, Voyage, St. Francis, Maxim, Leopard and African Cat are all South African builders.

You've noticed that on my website, I break out the boat inventory separately as it adds considerable value to the boat. Also, I'm in a position to get feedback from charter boat owners. Not all are pleased at the condition of their boat at the end of the charter.
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Last edited by TropicCat; 10-12-2013 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 10-19-2013
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Re: get out of jail "free" card - catamaran 40ft - buy 5yr used or new into charter p

While I agree that a charter boat can be very heavily used and even abused, they are also very well maintained as down time is a loss to the company. So things like engine maintenance is normally done on a timely basis. I think I would prefer to buy out of charter, than invest in a new boat into charter. Reason for this is you can check for symptoms of the boat having problems due to groundings and what not. If you put your boat into charter, and it abused it is still yours. I think it is better to get one coming out as you can have a thoroughly surveyed for damage and abuse. Also I would not like to know someone else it enjoying MY boat when I cant, while I have no issues buying one that has good memories in it.

I like the idea of buying a used one, either from or not out of charter. There seem to be several families that take a couple of years as a sabbatical on them. They will have them outfitted with all the good stuff, and only used the stuff for a short time. Any charter boat is going to be very basically equipped little electronics, no options and what not.

One other thing to keep in mind is that most charter boats are not the "owners" version and are designed to cram in as many cattle, I mean people, in as possible. So you won't get a nice large state room, but one of 4 cramped ones. Owner versions often have what would be two staterooms and are much better for long term living.
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Old 10-19-2013
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Re: get out of jail "free" card - catamaran 40ft - buy 5yr used or new into charter p

"they are also very well maintained as down time is a loss to the company. So things like engine maintenance is normally done on a timely basis. "
Nice theory, Paul. But in practice, many businesses would be tempted to say "I can make another two grand keeping this one on the water instead of in the shop this week" and the maintenance may get deferred. So how well a charter boat has been used or abused, will vary with the company it was operated by, and even by the personnel they had at the time. Some items, like the pressure water pump, may see more use in two years than a private boat would see in ten years, and you can pretty much bet those items aren't given any maintenance until and unless they fail. Ditto the packing gland and cutless bearing, things that are easy and AFAIK not on any routine schedule before the boat gets sold after charter service.
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