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  #11  
Old 10-26-2013
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Re: Trailer sailer

Thanks jim that was a very clear answer, because I know nothing about sailing I saw the 50hp as a possible safty line, again I have never sailed and know nothing about the stright of Georgia I thought it would be a vaid question for safty for a newby. But if your saying that a smaller eng. is fine for that type of sailing location im more op to find a good sailboat that ill be much happier with two years down the road (after learning how to sail )
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Old 10-26-2013
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Re: Trailer sailer

My budget would be around 15k at max. As for where id like to sail would be from Comox to Vancouver and down to Victoria and all the nice islands I have yet to vist inbetween.
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Old 10-26-2013
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Re: Trailer sailer

They aren't silly questions. I've been following and searching some of the discussions on boats in that size range. I'm probably at least a year away from buying anything myself.

They're starting to blur together for me as well.

I'm not sure if you're talking about a 22ft MacGregor or the 26 footer you mentioned earlier (the one with the 50 hp motor).

MacGregor appears to be aiming their boats at people like you and me. We want something big enough to be comfortable for spending a few nights on, yet light enough to be easily launched and trailered by something like a mid-sized SUV.

You don't get that without making some compromises. With the 26X and 26M (the motor sailers), MacGregor does that by using water ballast, thinner fiberglass, more spartan interiors, and in some cases lighter duty rigging than other boats. It's for these reasons that some people avoid them. I think MacGregor's argument would be that other boats are overbuilt and are heavier than they need to be. On the plus side, the MacGregors have positive flotation, - they can't be sunk even if filled completely with water.

From what I can tell Cat 22s are popular because they do a reasonable job of filling that niche but they are still more like a traditional sailboat and they have stood the test of time. They've been around for decades but are still in production so it is easy to find parts and other boats if you're interested in racing.

One thing to check on regarding your Jeep's towing capacity... We have a mid sized SUV and the limit for standard loads is 3500 but 4500 for boats.

MacGregor isn't the only once to use a water ballast system. One downside is that boats that use it rather than a weighted center board or keel is that they will "heel" more readily. This may freak out your wife until she gets used to it. Pretty much any monohull will heel noticeably in a stiff breeze so you're not really going to avoid it.

Last edited by unimacs; 10-27-2013 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 10-27-2013
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Re: Trailer sailer

Humm did not know towing a boat could change the allowance on the weight
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Re: Trailer sailer

My budget would be around 15k at max. As for where id like to sail would be from Comox to Vancouver and down to Victoria and all the nice islands I have yet to vist inbetween.
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Re: Trailer sailer

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcbrad View Post
Humm did not know towing a boat could change the allowance on the weight
Stick your arm out the window of a vehicle going about 60 or 70 mph and you'll know why. Boats are more aerodynamic than something like a camper trailer. Air resistance is one of the bigger forces your vehicle has to overcome. That being said, you want to stay under that weight limit unless you don't mind replacing transmissions every few years.
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Old 10-27-2013
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Re: Trailer sailer

I detect a troll... maybe I've become a cynic in my elder years...
Own a Mac and experience 4th mode...
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Re: Trailer sailer

Im abit lost on your comment shnool. If your thinking im posting this thread for some kind of entertainment, that would very incorrect. Ive just been posted here and have never been near water in my life, im just learning how to get the most out of it.
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Old 10-27-2013
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Re: Trailer sailer

I can completely understand your logic. I grew up around power boats, so the whole idea of a 9.9HP, or (as was on my Catalina originally) an 8HP pushing a 25' boat seemed crazy. But the 8HP Honda and 9.9HP Tohatsu that I had on that boat pushed her to and above theoretical hull speed at about half throttle. That gave me a lot of reserved "oomph" for if I was fighting a headwind or a current. For reference, my nearly 11,000 lb Allmand has a 16HP diesel inboard.

So, having sorted some of the confusion out, Jones's questions are perfect, as are some of your answers. A $15,000 budget is a reasonable budget. On a smaller boat, like a 22, that will get you something new-ish (maybe into the 1990's), on a 25-27, that will get you something with a 1980's vintage.

Unfortunately, what you're going to struggle with (and we all do) is finding the boat that truly meets your needs. One of the tough things right now is that, as a novice (again, I was there 2 years ago, too) you don't REALLY know what you want. You may think you do, but with all due respect, that will likely change.

Trailerable boats are great, and there are a lot of people for whom they are a perfect fit. The idea of being able to head off to different sailing destinations on a moment's notice is cool! As is the ability to travel REALLY far (e.g., across the country, or even down to the US) with the boat is pretty neat. A trip that would take many days in my boat is a relatively short drive away (for example, it took us 3 days to go about 200 miles when we did the delivery of the Allmand a few months ago). That significantly opens up your sailing area. Plus, with the boat on the trailer, you have her close to home to make repairs/maintenance, and you don't have to pay storage fees or slip fees (assuming you have the room at home).

But there's also a down-side to a trailerable boat. The first is the time you'll need to set her up and to break her down. Someone mentioned 45 minutes for a 22' boat, and that's generally what I've seen others say. For a 25, I typically heard an hour, once you're good at it. So, your typical day will be get up, hitch up the trailer, inspect the tires, brakes, etc., then tow the boat to the lake/ocean. Find a ramp that is deep enough for you to launch (depending on keel size/type, this may not be as big of an issue), then get in line to launch. Spend an hour rigging the boat. Stow everything. Launch the boat, then park the tow vehicle. Go sail, make sure you're back in time to have daylight while you get your car and wait in line to pull her from the water. Haul the boat, wash her down, break everything down (again, about an hour or so). If there is a bad turn in the weather, you're stuck breaking it down in the rain/wind. If something happens at the ramp, you're stuck in line for a long time. Then you get to drive home while towing a long, sometimes awkward load behind you. Then you have to park the boat in her "home".

If you're day sailing, you're looking at losing easily 2-3 hours of your day doing the "trailer thing" and that may get old quickly. That's why many trailer sailors go for the weekend, or longer. But (generally) the smaller the boat, the less comfortable it will be to sleep aboard. The bigger the boat, the harder it is to trailer and launch. As you'll hear here a lot, in boating, everything is a compromise.

Some trailer sailors LOVE it, and never want to give it up. For some, the idea of setting up and breaking down the boat gets old, and they look at other options. One is, of course, renting a slip. That's typically the most expensive option, but if you want shore power, it's really the only option (there are lots of threads on solar and wind power, if you're interested). The next less expensive options are moorings and keeping the boat rigged on a trailer at a marina/boat yard. Given what you've said your goals are in a boat, if you decide to stick with a trailerable boat, this last option may be advantageous. You find a marina in a place where you'll sail most regularly and you keep the boat out of the water when you aren't using it, but still avoid having to break it down and set it up every time. It can also be broken down and towed to other venues when you want to. You still won't have shore power, and if you overnight you'll need to anchor or rent a slip, but it's a nice compromise that lets you get on the water faster.

What I'd respectfully suggest, though, is that you don't know enough to start to understand the compromises involved, and your best bet is to go look at boats. And I don't just mean one or two, I mean 15-20. Look at 18'ers, 20's, 22's, 25's, and if you can find them, a few 27's. Look at what you get with the different sizes, and decide which size best meets your anticipated use. Sit in the 22's cabin, and imagine the two of you (or more, if you have kids) sleeping there and then waking the next morning; how do you prepare breakfast? How do you handle your morning routine (shower, shave, teeth, etc.)? Where is the head located; does it offer enough privacy for your wife? What if one of you needs to "go" during the night, does it require waking the other person before the head can be used? Sit in the cockpit - is it big enough for your wife to sit comfortably while you're working the tiller (since most boats in that size range don't have wheels)? If you plan on having guests regularly, is the cockpit big enough for everyone?

Once you've been aboard a bunch of boats, then think about your intended use again. As I said, for some a 22 is a PERFECT boat. For me, with my family, there's no way we could make that work. Although we liked the IDEA of trailering our boat, the time lost rigging and breaking down the boat was a non-starter for us because we have 2 young kids. They would be going nuts during that time, and it wouldn't wind up being an enjoyable time. Eventually, we accepted this fact and went with a slip, and then went with a bigger, more comfortable boat. A trailerable may be just the ticket for you, but I want to make sure you have a good sense of what will be involved, because the last thing I want is for you to buy something that becomes an albatross.

All that being said, go back and read Denise's first post - I think she covered almost all of that, and in far fewer words than I did.
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Last edited by jimgo; 10-27-2013 at 12:47 AM.
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  #20  
Old 10-27-2013
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Re: Trailer sailer

MacGregor does tout the idea of a 50 hp motor being a safety feature, - you can get out of bad weather quicker, but the others are right. The hull design of a typical keel boat puts a cap on its speed and it's based on the length of the boat. A 26ft keel boat is only going to go so fast and it doesn't matter how big the engine is. MacGregor gets around this problem by using a planing hull design, a daggerboard, and water ballast that can be dumped while underway.

If you're really new to sailing and water activities in general, I think the idea of joining a sailing club or taking some classes is an excellent one. There's a standard class for beginning keel boat sailers called ASA-101. They would get you on the water in a boat about the size of what you're looking at. Might give you a better idea of what you want before you end up spending $15,000 on something you'll end up selling less than a year later for less than what you paid.

In your mind sailing is a peaceful activity. It certainly can be that way but not knowing what you're doing when the wind starts to pick up can make for a really bad experience. If your wife is nervous around water then you may only have one chance to get her to buy into the dream. Her first ride on a sailboat should really be with somebody who knows how to sail it or there's a good chance she'll never set foot on one again.

Just to give you an example, my brother's boat was one he originally purchased with a buddy of his. It's a 23 foot Ensign. My brother knows how to sail but his buddy really didn't though he'd been out with my brother a number of times. Anyway, this guy decides to bring his two young daughter's out on the boat one day. The wind picks up, so they head back. They manage to get back into the bay but somehow ended up way too close to shore and snagged some power lines with the mast. Knocked the power out to a couple of houses but luckily he and his daughters (and the boat) were fine. If I had to guess I'd say that he probably had figured out how to sail the boat, but not how to stop it.

My brother became the sole owner of that boat shortly thereafter. The power lines ended up getting moved as well which was a good thing.
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Last edited by unimacs; 10-27-2013 at 01:56 AM.
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