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  #41  
Old 11-07-2013
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Re: Trailer sailer

Quote:
Originally Posted by unimacs View Post
The expense for me would be storage. I could maybe keep one on my property for the winter but wouldn't want it sitting in my driveway all year long so I'd need a mooring. They are relatively cheap nearby but much more than $50 a year.
You can also look for a marina that has a good boat ramp and allows to keep your boat on a trailer with the mast up. Saves a lot of time in getting it ready to sail. It might be cheaper than mooring and a lot easier on you and the boat.
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  #42  
Old 11-07-2013
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Re: Trailer sailer

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Originally Posted by unimacs View Post
Anyway, like I said, my biggest challenge will be in separating dream from reality and then making an appropriate choice, - which may mean no boat at all and just sailing with the local club (and my little inflatable catamaran).
I have been in that situation before. And here is what I found. The family was good with doing some day sails and the Kids were up for the occasional overnight. The long weekend thing on a small boat is awesome for me but no so much for the little ones. I ended up doing more stuff in town than actually sailing. If it were a bigger boat with more creature comforts then my family would be more into staying on the boat.

I had a Mac Gregor 222 with the pop-up top and while at dock or anchor it made the cabin usable. I could launch in 2 feet of water and setup and launch took me 45 minutes by myself with a simple system to raise the mast. 1 year I had the boat on a dock and the other I had it stored mast up on the trailer in the marina lot. That saved me some cash and launch took 20 minutes.

I started off with a little 12 foot scow to hone my skills in understanding sailing and also to get my kids out in good conditions with little time investment in launch should they decide that the park was more fun than sailing that day. I did 85% of my sailing on a small boat without my family as many times the conditions were too rough for them or they just had other things that interested them more. Now that I am on bigger boats my wife has become more agreeable to weekend and even week long vacations on a boat but i have a realistic understanding that it won't be spent sailing as much as I would want to. For that I will be solo or with my buddies.

Maybe you could get something like this and keep it at the club to see how it goes.
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  #43  
Old 11-07-2013
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Re: Trailer sailer

I started with the same dream as you have about 2 years ago. I also have the same spouse issues, lol. So here's what I did:
I read these and other sites like crazy and absorbed as much knowledge as possible. I then took ASA 101 and learned the basics of sailing.
I wrote on a sheet of paper the pros and cons of what boat would fit our needs, taking into account our intended use, $$, tow vehicle, area of use, bunks, sleeping, sailing ability, motors, ect.
Sleep on it for 6 months. Lol
Read lots more and revise your list.
I bought a Mac26X and we love it. It fits our needs and our sailing area well. The wife likes it, likes the enclosed head, and the cabin space. The kids like that I can tow them the inner tubes for part of the day, or just motor about. I like that i can raise the sails and do my thing in total peace and quiet.
It's not a great sail boat, or a great motor boat. But it does both good enough for us. Ours has a 50hp Honda, and at wot we can hit 17 kts. At sail I usually do 4-5 kts, but as my sail trim improves, so does my speed. My Mac won't win any races, but I could care less. I can raise the mast with the mast raising system by myself, and have the boat in the water ready to go in 40 min. With help, 25-30 min. We frequently sleep over night on her and enjoy the room and comfort. I keep her in my backyard when not in use, and is easy to work on.
I also have well under 10k invested at this time.
My BIG advice is this: In my personal opinion, a Mac is not, repeat not, a blue water boat. I would not risk my loved ones on rough open stormy water. It's a good lake/limited (proper planned/good weather) coastal boat.
Re-read the posts on this topic as their is some mighty good advice.

Rich
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  #44  
Old 11-07-2013
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Re: Trailer sailer

MacGregor X models seem to be very polarizing designs. On one hand you have a very loyal following who loves the boats and feel like they are are versatile and have the benefits of both. Then you have the other side that often has the view that when you try and have a compromise in design you get just that, a boat that comprises and doesn't do either particularly well. I think the point I am trying to make is there are so many designs and so many opinions of them it might be best to just try and get on some boats and see what you really like. Go look at anything that is near you so you get a feel for the different designs and beg, plead and offer good quality beer to get out on a couple boats.

I would agree with Harley that the X is definitely relegated to a life near the coast. Has a very high free board and can be very tender in moderate waves.
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  #45  
Old 11-13-2013
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Re: Trailer sailer

When i read threads like this, newbie wants to trailer sail, mostly I think - this person has no idea what they are getting themselves into. And, what you don't know can hurt you.

As in - the boat is too small - Denise realized she needed more boat. most people just walk away from sailing because going bigger is financially out of the question.

PIA- that stands for Pain in the butocal region. A hour of rigging and unrigging can get old fast. That's if it's only an hour. Dealing with boat ramps gets old. Too steep, not steep enough, too slippery, too much current, not protected from waves, too much power boat traffic, not enough parking, did you remember to bring the keys to the boat? Where does the boat reside when not in use, did you remember to buy engine oil, what are kids doing while you rig and unrig load and unload, Daddy the bugs are biting me Etc etc etc!!!

Competing for time - if you have any time limitations to sailing a trailer sailor is going to sit in your driveway rather than get used. The time/pleasure calculation will always go against taking the boat out if there are time constraints. Especially once the PIA factor is added in. Example : you've got 5 hours of free time. 1/2 hour to prep for day on boat. 1/2 hour to reach ramp. 1 hour to rig. Same on back side leaves only one hour for sailing. Hmm?

The point being that there is much, if not accounted for, that can kill the strongest sailing dreams. Knowing what you are getting into before hand can go a long way in helping you achieve the dream.

On the practical advice side of things - 3500 pounds of towing means buying a 2000 pound boat max. trailer for a boat that size will be in the 800 to 1000 pound range and gear will easily take up the rest of the weight package your vehicle can handle.

If sailing just for you and your wife one boat not mentioned ( i think) Montgomery 15 and 17. Both excellent trailer sailors.

Last edited by TJC45; 11-13-2013 at 11:42 AM.
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  #46  
Old 11-13-2013
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Re: Trailer sailer

First Brad let me apologize for assuming you were trolling... You've since figured out why I would think as much (the Mac 26x, the motorsailor is a HIGHLY polarizing boat).

So lemme first properly welcome you... and let me say that, sailing can be the most difficult sport challenge, but life altering, and still enjoyable hobby/sport/addiction you could ever endeavor to try. For that, I say "welcome to the addiction!"

As I see it you have several different requests ALL in conflict with one another. Please fix/ammend my comments below... if I read wrong:

* You have a Jeep (assuming cherokee/Grand not wrangler) that can tow #3500 - my assumption then is you want trailerable (as is also your topic headline)
* Your wife is uneasy about water time (not unusual by the way).. this needs more definition, is it the water (can't swim) or boats, or worse sailboats (heeling), others will chime in on how EASY it is to assuage fears in that category
* Because of above you want live-aboard, or camp aboard accomodations, as "bigger is better."
* You want to do what amounts to short open water crossings...
* You have roughly $15k to throw at this (assuming all up, meaning maintenance and fix its, for the first year or 2)

Broken down like this, I'm going to tell you right now, you aren't going to cover all those bases. Regardless of what you'll do you'll wind up with a compromise boat. ONLY YOU can figure out what priority list you have from that list above.

Several will tell you the Norsea 27 is a trailerable, bluewater, headroom cruiser, that fits MUCH of your requirements... but you aren't towing it with your Jeep, nor are you likely to find a servicable one for $15k.

A Capri 18 will have a porta-pottie, is trailerable, all up package is exactly #3500, but it's hardly comfortable below, nor capable of much if any offshore work.

So it's decision time... Because most here will tell you, a boat slip at $2500 a year (guess), and heavier boat for a light offshore day sail for under $15k for the first year is POSSIBLE (yeah the market is THAT bad), but of course it'll not be towable except with a crane and a diesel pickup.

Now as for the Mac 26x... I don't think it's a bad boat (there I said it)... I do think it's a compromise boat. Having a 50hp motor especially an outboard, is hardly a "safety factor." At least no more than a 9.9hp outboard would be, and most will tell you a good inboard is a better choice for any harsh conditions...

That being said, I'd LIKE to help you prioritize your list (as it sounds like most here would as well)...

If you REALLY want this to be a hobby you and your spouse can enjoy... you MIGHT want to invest in ASA classes for you both! Might also be better if you take the classes at different times, so you are not there to shadow her. Once she has a handle on what makes the boat go, and stop, and does some actual driving of the boat, she MIGHT be less afraid of the water (assuming the fear is not the water it's the boat).

If there is a fear of water in general (say she cannot swim), then swimming lessons perhaps... but that's not likely gonna help as much as you might think. If it's just the open water, then perhaps you might want to rethink doing this together! I know I am really throwing a monkey wrench there.. but Honestly you cannot compel your spouse to like your hobbies, and sometimes its better to not try to go down that road. What happens as you expand your hobby is you build a resentment towards your hobby if the spouse doesn't enjoy it for themselves, but instead enjoys it for YOU! Sorry, some spouses won't ever enjoy it for themselves.

NOW, I have a solution to above, at least to an extent. Sometimes they get over the fear of "sailing," or "the water" as you become a more competent skipper. You can do that by getting miles (nautical of course) under you belt in various weather. Then you can ease fears by sailing "flat" and picking short destinations for whatever THEIR favorite things to do are (say antiquing, or shopping, or laying at the beach, or just browsing historic sites)... So now the boat is a mode of transport, not the hobby. If that "grabs" the attention, it can turn YOUR hobby into HER hobby, if in an indirect way... but that is a HUGE stretch, and its hard to get there.

So Step 1. Classes for you both if you can.
Step 2. Get a small boat for YOU to cut your teeth, and put it where you can get the most "tiller-time" 2-3-4 times a week is best.
Step 3... Decide what size boat will get you where you ultimately want to be (by then you'll know if it's with the wife or not).
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  #47  
Old 11-13-2013
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Re: Trailer sailer

Wow. What a lot of advise you have gotten since I checked into here last.

I will just say that may family did exactly what you are planning this summer. My wife DOES like boating though so that is a difference. We bought a trailer sailer, 25', and spent nearly our whole summer on it. It cost us 5K in AK where prices are as high as the winter is cold.

Only you can decide what your family is into for fun. If you are an adventurous group then your plans are not really crazy at all. People did it all the time in the 60s and 70s before sailing was displaced by PWCs and powerboats.

Each forum member is going to tell you what they could handle, only you can decide if it is right for your family. The 3 steps above are a great start. My wife a few years ago was a white water guide but was very afraid of the ocean. Now she has kayaked by herself out there, and finished her first 2 sailing classes. You never now what a person will enjoy until they try it.
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  #48  
Old 11-13-2013
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Re: Trailer sailer

The dreaded double post.

But hey as long as I did...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHNOOL View Post
If you REALLY want this to be a hobby you and your spouse can enjoy... you MIGHT want to invest in ASA classes for you both! Might also be better if you take the classes at different times, so you are not there to shadow her. Once she has a handle on what makes the boat go, and stop, and does some actual driving of the boat, she MIGHT be less afraid of the water (assuming the fear is not the water it's the boat).
This is what we did and it worked great. Taking separate classes made sailing my wife's fun getaway for 3 days. I took care of the girls while she enjoyed it for herself. Great idea SHNOOL.

Last edited by AlaskaMC; 11-13-2013 at 01:51 PM.
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  #49  
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Re: Trailer sailer

Yeah I suggested same to my wife, but she wasn't really interested. Even though I've sailed for years I'd like to get all the ASA classes as well (you never know everything)... our local ASA school is fantastic too. I know 2 of the instructors, and they are both top-notch sailors in their own rights. I am quite sure I could pick their brains for hours and be quite happy with that.

Sadly my wife has No interest in sailing, she doesn't mind being a passenger at all, but has (as she puts it) no sense of balance, and therefore feels uneasy moving about the boat. She's got a bum left eye, so really only has decent vision in 1 eye, so her depth perception is way off. This is MOST likely the reason for her saying she's got no sense of balance... We ride horses, so she obviously has SOME balance.

My daughter on the other hand... she's likely going to grow up to be my bowman... she's totally into sailing and will scale the deck at 10yo in a good breeze with water spraying over the bow. She's also really into flying the big kite... so yep I could totally see her as foredeck.

Anyway, yes can't say enough good things about the ASA schools. 2 of my crew were FRESH out of ASA 101 and 103, came to crew with me for last season, and both of them took to this like they had been doing it their whole lives.
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  #50  
Old 11-14-2013
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Re: Trailer sailer

Save your money! BOTH you and your wife need to go to a GOOD sailing school to learn how to sail FIRST! This may also help with her fears.
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