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  #31  
Old 12-14-2010
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Then there's the additional weight aloft. Then there's the fact that you can't use horizontal battens, which are more efficient than vertical battens.
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  #32  
Old 12-15-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Just curious, but what boat do you have?
A Jeanneau 54DS. Built before they switched to the fake teak and plastic seacocks on the 53s and 57s!

The cockpit is actually two levels. The rear level is where the aft most end of the boom extends. I'm 6'1" and the boom is well over my head, I estimated the 8ft. The fore of the cockpit is a bit higher, but the dodger covers it entirely and removes access to the entire mid-section of the boom. Still, it is 6+ ft above that deck. About a third of the boom is easily reached at the end by the mast.

When we drop the furled main for maintenance or winter, it is a royal PIA. (The Genoa is worse) Only my wife and I crew the boat, no way one person would drop and flake a traditional main. I suppose with lazy jack, etc, it would be possible. Just hope nothing requires you to reach it and fix it.

So far, zero hang ups with either furler (knock on wood) and, as you read, she loves to sail.
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  #33  
Old 12-15-2010
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Ah, that makes some sense then... the main on that beast must be pretty big.

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
A Jeanneau 54DS. Built before they switched to the fake teak and plastic seacocks on the 53s and 57s!

The cockpit is actually two levels. The rear level is where the aft most end of the boom extends. I'm 6'1" and the boom is well over my head, I estimated the 8ft. The fore of the cockpit is a bit higher, but the dodger covers it entirely and removes access to the entire mid-section of the boom. Still, it is 6+ ft above that deck. About a third of the boom is easily reached at the end by the mast.

When we drop the furled main for maintenance or winter, it is a royal PIA. (The Genoa is worse) Only my wife and I crew the boat, no way one person would drop and flake a traditional main. I suppose with lazy jack, etc, it would be possible. Just hope nothing requires you to reach it and fix it.

So far, zero hang ups with either furler (knock on wood) and, as you read, she loves to sail.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #34  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
A Jeanneau 54DS. Built before they switched to the fake teak and plastic seacocks on the 53s and 57s!

The cockpit is actually two levels. The rear level is where the aft most end of the boom extends. I'm 6'1" and the boom is well over my head, I estimated the 8ft. The fore of the cockpit is a bit higher, but the dodger covers it entirely and removes access to the entire mid-section of the boom. Still, it is 6+ ft above that deck. About a third of the boom is easily reached at the end by the mast.

When we drop the furled main for maintenance or winter, it is a royal PIA. (The Genoa is worse) Only my wife and I crew the boat, no way one person would drop and flake a traditional main. I suppose with lazy jack, etc, it would be possible. Just hope nothing requires you to reach it and fix it.

So far, zero hang ups with either furler (knock on wood) and, as you read, she loves to sail.

All the more reason I don't want a boat over 40' in length. No offense but if I can't do MOST jobs on the boat by myself...
But that's my personal preference.
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  #35  
Old 12-15-2010
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Sailordave is profoundly correct on this one.

If one single person cant manhandle (reef,stow,remove,replace) a single sodden sail on a pitching deck during howling storm conditions ... when such a sail HAS to come off, now ... the boat is either too big, the sailor bought a bill of goods, etc. etc.

Usually the limit for a single healthy person to safely remove a sodden sail under any conditions is about ~400 sq. ft. ... and that SA limits one to about ~40-42 ft. LOA. for 'serious' single/double handed sailing.
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Sailordave is profoundly correct on this one.

If one single person cant manhandle (reef,stow,remove,replace) a single sodden sail on a pitching deck during howling storm conditions ... when such a sail HAS to come off, now ... the boat is either too big, the sailor bought a bill of goods, etc. etc.

Usually the limit for a single healthy person to safely remove a sodden sail under any conditions is about ~400 sq. ft. ... and that SA limits one to about ~40-42 ft. LOA. for 'serious' single/double handed sailing.
You guys are funny. My boat's too big. Geeesh.

I never said one person couldn't drop the main at all. In fact, I've done it alone on the deck in near 20kts of wind. Didn't enjoy it, but that wasn't the requirement. I said that flaking a traditional main over the boom isn't going to happen, so having the furler for day to day ops is great.
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The real problem is if you're incapacitated, can your wife manhandle the sails if necessary??? IMHO, I agree with RichH, everything on a boat should ideally be capable of being handled by the smallest, least capable full crew member.

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You guys are funny. My boat's too big. Geeesh.

I never said one person couldn't drop the main at all. In fact, I've done it alone on the deck in near 20kts of wind. Didn't enjoy it, but that wasn't the requirement. I said that flaking a traditional main over the boom isn't going to happen, so having the furler for day to day ops is great.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #38  
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Nobody said your boat is too big.

What was implied is that a 600 sq. ft. sail made from ~9oz. material is going to weigh about 120+lb. ... soak it with water and maybe 160#. and unless your physique is extraordinary, a normal person isnt going to able to wrestle with it ... and probably not two either.

For a point of comparsion, a 400 sq. ft. main of equivalent cloth will only weigh about 75-80# dry. and thats approximately the 'historical' limit that a single person can 'fight' on a pitching deck ... when such HAS TO come off. So, maybe your boat is too big ... to be safely handled by a single hander when the conditions so merit, probably too big for even two.

The point remains, that when an in-mast furler affects much more than a 30% SA reduction you dont have a 'sail' anymore, you then have essentially a 'pointy on the top' shaped flat-plate aloft. ... and youre not going to be able to go anywhere but 'downwind'. With a slab/jiffy/boom-roller reefing, the important 'broadseamed'/curved sections are always exposed to airflow.

So I guess what Im stating is that for greater SA reduction than a 'first reef' an in-mast furler is ..... almost TOTALLY WORTHLESS for sailing at any angle much above a beam reach.
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Last edited by RichH; 12-15-2010 at 07:50 PM.
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Okey dokey.

SD makes a good point. Whatever happens, my wife does need to be able to handle it alone. The good news is, she's a pretty tough gal and I give her better than 50/50 odds in the worst scenario. She makes it a point to wanting to be able to do all sailing tasks herself. In fact, she usually volunteers to grind up the main (when we're on a boat that need to be ) I fell in love with her when I walked into her apartment years ago and found her crawling around her attic replacing her dryer vent. She's a keeper.

I get the point about a heavy rain soaked sail. First, heavy weather procedure is not to drop the main, it is to furl her in and run another up the slot on the outside of the mast with the spare halyard. That isn't so tough with a smaller sail. In the worst case scenario, we would drop the main on the coach top and lash it all down at the base of the mast. My wife could undoubtedly do that. Ugly, but it would do in an emergency, there is plenty of room, the boom is chest high at the mast.

Also, keep in mind that she will sail just fine at 20kts of true wind with all the sheets fully out and just easing off the main a bit. You'll see 9+ kts all day long in those winds. When reefing that much sail becomes an issue for us, you've found yourself in some real snot that was probably avoidable for the coastal cruising we typically do.
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mennewaska,

thanks for the info...what brand furling system do you have?

thanks
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