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  #31  
Old 11-22-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

When we hauled for a near miss hurricane a few years ago, we were shocked to see impact damage to the leading edge of our rudder. Clearly, we hit something and didn't know it. A couple of years later, we haul for the season and notice a ding on a prop blade.

Both repairable, thankfully. It happens. Neither were the manufacturers fault. Neither noticeable when they occurred.

If you dragged netting, you could have stressed the rudder post.
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  #32  
Old 11-22-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankschicketanz View Post
Hi, everyone--This is Helen, Frank's wife, hijacking this post to mention a couple of things. I have tried several times to upload pictures here (which we did send to Hanse), but for some reason I keep getting a message that there is a server error. I hate to ask you to go somewhere else, but if you go to flickr and look in my photo stream (under Helen Schicketanz) you will see pictures of the cracked rudder. You will notice that the crack comes down from the TOP of the rudder. We discovered the cracked rudder when it was out of the water for anti-fouling last June; the running aground mentioned in the blog was at the end of July and did no damage to the rudder.

Second, it is not entirely accurate to say that the boat was not sailed for eleven months. We did sail it for a week in April. Before that--and yes, I grant you that there are a lot of things we should have known/researched/questioned--we could not leave the dock because we were trying to get it registered and insured in our names (SOY made both of these things very difficult, taking twice as long as necessary to get us the paperwork we needed). When we did sail it, we had very calm seas and did not notice anything with the rudder; we certainly did not hit anything.

We did not inspect the rudder when we purchased it, as it was a new boat. Consequently, it did not occur to us that it would be necessary to inspect it. SOY delivered the boat and put it in the water, where it was when we arrived to claim it. Perhaps we were too trusting.
I see the OP's point of view.

If all of this is to be taken at face value, then maybe a bit more love from Hanse might be expected.

What was the cost of the repairs??? $1000 Euro?? And what how much would these guys have paid for this boat?? More than 150 000 Euro???

Ok, let's say the delivery guys did do it. Or let's just say the OP did have an accidental oopsy. Actually let's just pretend it is definitely the OP's fault. It is a 150K Euro boat, I would think Hanse would at least be a bit more sympathetic.

I reckon plenty of manufacturers would just say sorry no problem, let us help you out, here have a free t-shirt and please buy your next boat from us

Either way the OP has a right to express his opinion.

I really love the self righteous choir of posters who only pop up in these threads to act all suspicious and indignant.

"this guy is using our forum to bad mouth Hanse, he hasn't been here for 5 years discussing anchors like us....how dare he express his opinion"

It's the internet guys....chill.
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  #33  
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

Quote:
Originally Posted by chall03 View Post
......Actually let's just pretend it is definitely the OP's fault. It is a 150K Euro boat, I would think Hanse would at least be a bit more sympathetic.

I reckon plenty of manufacturers would just say sorry no problem, let us help you out, here have a free t-shirt and please buy your next boat from us .......
We have no information on how sympathetic they were. It's not even clear if the boat was even in warranty any longer. Was it?

I'm sure they would have sent a free t-shirt, if that was going to solve the problem. A new rudder? Not in our lifetime, nor is one deserved, unless it is covered under the warranty and the owner complies with its requirements. It's a simple contract.

As I think about it, $1,350 US is not a lot to fix/replace a rudder that is described as split down from the top. I presume there would be water penetration and the interior web would be suspect. I tried to look for the pic on Flickr, as the OP suggested, but couldn't find it. I just don't think we all fully understand what is going on here.
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  #34  
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

The boat is under warranty and from the first Hanse was defensive, never sympathetic. Whereas the "after sales representative", after we sent him the pictures of the cracked rudder, wanted to see pictures of the bottom of the rudder, the CEO didn't need any evidence to accuse us of lying. If someone is this distrustful by nature, should they be heading a firm? Or is this attitude by management a remnant of the days when Greifswald was in Communist East Germany, where customer satisfaction was hardly a concern?
I agree with Chall03 about some of these posts. I thought this was a serious site where we could share experiences, give opinions and advice. Yet with some of the name-calling, making fun of my name and accusations, I feel like I'm in elementary school.
I never wanted sympathy, either from Hanse or fellow sailors. We just wanted what we felt was due us.
To those who want to play judge and jury, I have nothing to add; to all others I would just like to say beware when dealing with Hanse here in Europe. My experience with them is not unique, a Brit on our pontoon met with similar intransigence when dealing with Hanse.
I am not bad-mouthing Hanse, after all, I own one and do not want it to be seen as a bad boat.
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  #35  
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

Sorry, Frank, but how is posting a thread titled 'Never buy a Hanse' NOT badmouthing them, or denigrating the boat?

Had you taken a slightly different tack, included detail on the response of the Hanse rep, included other anecdotal evidence like you're bringing up now, the response may have been less skeptical.

It is sad indeed if, as a buyer of an expensive boat, you cannot get any sort of satisfaction on warranty issues, and I sympathize.. I'd certainly expect better PR regardless of the circumstances.. but 'Never buy a Hanse' sends a pretty clear message...
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  #36  
Old 11-22-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankschicketanz View Post
If someone is this distrustful by nature, should they be heading a firm? Or is this attitude by management a remnant of the days when Greifswald was in Communist East Germany, where customer satisfaction was hardly a concern?
Wow. You're really not very good at this, are you Frank?

BTW - here's the crack:

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  #37  
Old 11-22-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

Dear Helen and Frank, this is primarily an American message board and to the best of my recollection you may be the first to write on depth on purchasing a new boat in Europe. There are major differences between automobile dealers and boat brokers. In the USA (at least for the Catalina Company) the broker you bought the boat from is responsible for commissioning and warranty repair. They reserve a portion of your purchase price to do this work. Hanse (or in my case, Catalina) will assist the broker technically and will actually “bill” the broker directly if the factory has to supply a replacement part. That is probably why the CEO of Hanse declines responsibility as the boat passed out of his ownership when delivered to the broker. Selection of the right broker is almost as important as the boat “brand”. Your only real course of action is to sue the broker in bankruptcy court for your repairs. Your chances of prevailing against Hanse in court is a lot smaller and you will need to employ the services of a good German Lawyer who can navigate the complex German commercial code. Sadly, you may just have learned an expensive lesson. I apologize for the juvenile comments made by some of the posters. Some do not know when it is time for being serious and when to be frivolous.
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  #38  
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Wow. You're really not very good at this, are you Frank?

BTW - here's the crack:

Well... that's not good... and needs to be addressed. Is that hull scraping too? If so that's a pretty good indication that the rudder was seriously stressed at some point. The question then is when and by whom?
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  #39  
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankschicketanz View Post
I thought this was a serious site where we could share experiences, give opinions and advice. Yet with some of the name-calling, making fun of my name and accusations, I feel like I'm in elementary school.
I never wanted sympathy, either from Hanse or fellow sailors. We just wanted what we felt was due us.
Well, speaking for myself, it IS kind of like elementary school around here. That's why I love it.

BUT - it can also be a "serious site". That's why I (and I think many others) don't simply take slams on generally reputable companies at face value - especially when posted by someone brand new. There's a whole lot of that that goes on and 90% of the time, there's WAY more to the story than is originally posted (just like in your case).

As Faster has said, you set the tone with the title of this thread. You might not have wanted "sympathy", but you definitely wanted to inflict some public damage on Hanse.

I do apologize for messing with your name. I didn't know it was actually your name. But I don't apologize for my skepticism...skepticism that still remains until I hear the other side of the story if Hanse cares to give it.

All that said, you guys do produce some incredible photography of beautiful places. Well done.
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  #40  
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

That's a nasty split. How was it repaired? One has to assume salt water invaded the post and webbing.

How does your warranty read? Is the manufacturer obligated or the dealer?

I would be ticked too, but this is a practical contractual matter.
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