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post #41 of 114 Old 11-22-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

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Well... that's not good... and needs to be addressed. Is that hull scraping too? If so that's a pretty good indication that the rudder was seriously stressed at some point. The question then is when and by whom?
Yup, even to my untrained eye it looks like damage from an impact. And looks like the rudder was moving at the time, or pressure was on it for a long time as the boat leaned against it, as if it had been grounded, and the boat bounced around for a while, not long but more than just a soft grounding. Does the harbor have a strong tidal surge? Perhaps it was bouncing on the bottom in the sip at low tide? I would still expect the dealer to take care of you and at least give partial credit, especially if it did take 11 months to register the boat. But as said the structure of the warranty seems to leave it in the hands of the dealer, not the manufacturer. I do also agree that if the dealer is out of business, then perhaps the manufacturer would step up. But the picture does not look favorable to you.
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post #42 of 114 Old 11-22-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

I do this for a living and that appears to be a **** job from the factory. There is no evidence indicating anything other than a crappy build, yet another reason not to purchase a cheap **** production boat. That being said it is an easy and cheap repair. Fix it for get it and sail on my friend.
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post #43 of 114 Old 11-22-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

Oh, come on. Mr Frankschicketanz or whatever his name is, is fooling us.

We have asked for some facts. Age, who dilivered where, and so on. But no facts so far.

But what we have seen is that the statement on "11 months in harbour" is not correct. No, it has been sailing, maybe in the Med. Maybe the boat was actually picked up in the Med , from the agent, the famous "SüdOst Yachting" (for our americans friends, SüdOst Germany is quite close to the Med around Italy).


As the model actually is old, at least 2 years, you have bought an old model. From a agent who has gone burst. Maybe delivery was somewhere in the NorthEast Med, from which you now have sailed home to Lagos in Portugal after some adventures.
(bit far from the 11 month in harbour).

Warranty ... very doubtful there is anting left. Then you have been sailing with some accidents. Happens to everyone.

But why, och why, do you expect the manufacturer to fix this? Even if there is a fabrication fault, the boat is most likely beyond warranty, in particular after some groundings.

You have most likely got a very good deal when you bought an old model, still a considerable sum. Then you have an annual cost, guess this is in the range €5,000 - €10,000. The cost for this repair is just a fraction of your annual cost, why do you insist so much?

My conslusion is you are trying to fool Hansa, and when that doesn't work, you are trying to fool us, and go on with some rather extensive flaming.

Doesn't work pal. Not at all.

I reiterate my recommendation: get the rudder fixed, and sail on. Have a whiskey in your cockpit and enjoy life. Forget about these matters with the rudder.

You seem to have a lovely family, and a very nice boat. Enjoy!

/J
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post #44 of 114 Old 11-22-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

All cheaply built production boats have issues, that is a given. What bothers me is the crappy CS from the factory, they did a poor job and wont stand behind their product, this is reason enough never to purchase from them. It is clearly a manufacture defect but again an easy fix and I agree have a glass of scotch move on.
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post #45 of 114 Old 11-22-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

Frankschicketanz, the guys on this site can be a bit childish sometimes, 'tis true. However, too many of have been caught by people posting bad information - sometimes companies promoting themselves or badmouthing the competition; others who enjoy stirring up acrimonious debate.

However, there are many very knowledgeable - and possibly opinionated - folks; in every thread there will be some unhelpful posts, and some valuable ones.

In your case, there are some open questions, age of boat when purchased, usage of boat (in marina or sailed), possible owner damage to boat - possible broker damage to boat, etc. A crack like that should be carefully examined by a surveyor. In many ways a manufacturing defect is the best outcome - there is a risk of core penetration, but little risk of damage to the internal structure. Spade rudders are particularly vulnerable to grounding/external deflection. This can unbalance a rudder, perhaps damaging the internal structure. However, it is likely that any damage like this would also be reflected in stress marks on the hull.

So get an expert to evaluate it - and then, if you are still convinced it is a manufacturing defect, perhaps Hanse will help. But if it is indeed an older model from an insolvent broker, perhaps not.

Last edited by paul323; 11-22-2013 at 03:33 PM. Reason: typo
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post #46 of 114 Old 11-22-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

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Originally Posted by barefootnavigator View Post
I do this for a living and that appears to be a **** job from the factory. There is no evidence indicating anything other than a crappy build, yet another reason not to purchase a cheap **** production boat. That being said it is an easy and cheap repair. Fix it for get it and sail on my friend.
Hmm, you can tell that from one photo, huh? What exactly do you do for a living? Are you a boat builder or a surveyor?

To me it also looks like it could have been water intrusion that froze and split the rudder, or a grounding, or manufacturing defect, etc. It appears that the rudder may be rubbing the hull. The OP should confirm or deny this.

Only a close, in person inspection by a qualified marine surveyor can determine what caused this.

Tim R.
Our Carina is for sale
1997 Caliber 40LRC

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Last edited by Tim R.; 11-22-2013 at 03:45 PM.
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post #47 of 114 Old 11-22-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

We don't know the factory's point of view.


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Jeanneau 54DS

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post #48 of 114 Old 11-22-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

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Wow. You're really not very good at this, are you Frank?

BTW - here's the crack:

It would be a reasonable request to want a picture that includes the bottom of the rudder.


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post #49 of 114 Old 11-22-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

The boat is a 2011 model, not launched until 2012 as it was a demo model. Perhaps we should have followed the common sense of never buying a demo model of anything, but as Frank (this is Helen again) said--I think here, but maybe not--one reason that we bought the boat in the first place is that Hanse is a well-respected company who do build a good product. It was delivered by truck--brought from the Chiemsee to the south of France--and launched there. There are no pictures of the bottom of the rudder because quite honestly it didn't occur to me; I wanted the crack to be recorded as clearly as possible. We have not had any sort of tidal surge or any of the conditions people have mentioned. Frank says to also mention that he agrees with you who have pointed out the inflammatory nature of the title of the post, but he posted not long after he had gotten the reply from the CEO. As an English teacher, I probably should have vetted the title but didn't.

On another issue, how did you manage to get that picture up? I tried several times to upload it and kept getting a server error.
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post #50 of 114 Old 11-22-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

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Originally Posted by Frankschicketanz View Post

On another issue, how did you manage to get that picture up? I tried several times to upload it and kept getting a server error.
Posting a picture here works well with sites like Photobucket and Flickr.. you just need to choose the linking option that embeds the pic rather than one that simply provides yet another link. In Photobucket it's the IMG CODE option.

So simply copy the appropriate link code, and paste it into your post. You may need 10 posts before that works for you. DO NOT try the site-based photo upload.

Ron

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".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)

Last edited by Faster; 11-22-2013 at 05:13 PM.
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