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  #51  
Old 11-22-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

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Originally Posted by Frankschicketanz View Post

On another issue, how did you manage to get that picture up? I tried several times to upload it and kept getting a server error.
Glad this is heading in a more positive direction! Welcome to sailnet!

On your photo question...

1. Bring up your image in flicker
2. Right click on the image (or on a Mac Control Click) and select a size. Here I did the large. Then right click again and copy the image location.
3. Then put the image inside these [img]link pasted here[/img]
So, for example. The cool pelican would be...


Unfortunately you cannot directly link the light board link that you get in the share options on flicker. Maybe there is a way but I don't know it.

And I agree, you guys take fantastic pics. Come to sailnet and tell us of your adventures!
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  #52  
Old 11-22-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

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Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Posting a picture here works well with sites like Photobucket and Flickr.. you just need to choose the linking option that embeds the pic rather than one that simply provides yet another link. In Photobucket it's the IMG CODE option.

So simply copy the appropriate link code, and paste it into your post. You may need 10 posts before that works for you. DO NOT try the site-based photo upload.
Faster,

Flicker does not allow this as photobucket does. If you just try to use the default link it fails. Flicker wants you to include a link back to the file on flicker or it is technically against the user agreement. I looked but couldn't find an IMG type link anywhere on flicker. If you know where it is let us know.
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  #53  
Old 11-22-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

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Originally Posted by AlaskaMC View Post
Faster,

Flicker does not allow this as photobucket does. If you just try to use the default link it fails. Flicker wants you to include a link back to the file on flicker or it is technically against the user agreement. I looked but couldn't find an IMG type link anywhere on flicker. If you know where it is let us know.
OK.. I use PB and just assumed Flickr worked similarly as we've seen Flickr images here. Thanks. Your workaround seems straightforward.
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  #54  
Old 11-22-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

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Originally Posted by Faster View Post
OK.. I use PB and just assumed Flickr worked similarly as we've seen Flickr images here. Thanks. Your workaround seems straightforward.
I use PB too and was surprised that I couldn't find the link. There was a FAQ that answered the question for me though as they don't want images linked that way for some reason. Odd. Love workarounds though.
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  #55  
Old 11-22-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

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Originally Posted by Frankschicketanz View Post
The boat is a 2011 model, not launched until 2012 as it was a demo model. Perhaps we should have followed the common sense of never buying a demo model of anything, but as Frank (this is Helen again) said--I think here, but maybe not--one reason that we bought the boat in the first place is that Hanse is a well-respected company who do build a good product. It was delivered by truck--brought from the Chiemsee to the south of France--and launched there. There are no pictures of the bottom of the rudder because quite honestly it didn't occur to me; I wanted the crack to be recorded as clearly as possible. We have not had any sort of tidal surge or any of the conditions people have mentioned. Frank says to also mention that he agrees with you who have pointed out the inflammatory nature of the title of the post, but he posted not long after he had gotten the reply from the CEO. As an English teacher, I probably should have vetted the title but didn't.

On another issue, how did you manage to get that picture up? I tried several times to upload it and kept getting a server error.
First of all welcome to sailnet. I hope you stay. I like your photos. As some had said photobucket works better for posting on another forums and it is free too. If you want to share your voyage photos with us, you can post them here:

Pictures: Those perfect moments

As many had already said we had bad experiences with people that are not members and uses the site to as a way to pressure companies trough bad publicity regarding claims that cab be (or not) justified.

Things went wrong from the beginning with the title of the thread and with some no factual information even if not intended.

From what I can understand you did not checked the boat on delivery, I mean the underwater part, namely the ruder and don't know if that crack had to do with the boat transport by road. I assume that you or your father looked at the boat before buying it and that crack was not there.

It seems to me that the CEO of Hanse knows perfectly that type of crack cannot happen on a new boat without some hardship. It look like a pressure crack and that's why he asked to see a photo of the bottom of the rudder and almost for sure it is not a fabrication defect.

Probably it happened with the charging or discharging from the boat to the truck and then Hanse has nothing to do with it. I am not saying that he was nice and that he could not have done better, just that he was not obliged to do better: The warranty regards defects not what happens to the boat after this one is delivered to the dealer. If the dealer messed up it is to the dealer to get it right. I know that the dealer bankrupted, yes they could have been nice on Hanse and took over the dealer's responsibility....but they were not obliged to do that. They probably had sold that boat to the dealer at more than a year.

I have a question: You have repaired the rudder before going on that tour on the med? How much was the cost of the repair?

And another question: How much was the discount on that boat over the price since it was obviously a demonstration boat that served for nothing since that model was not anymore in production when it was sold?

That transaction looks like to be a particular one. Hanse had probably sold that boat to the dealer more than a year ago.

The more important is that you have a new nice boat and are having fun with it. Who knows maybe we meet at sea. I live in Portugal but most of all I sail on the med. Next year I will sail on Italy and Greece.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-22-2013 at 07:33 PM.
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  #56  
Old 11-23-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Boat?

Should we try to get some order in this?

The "misunderstandings"
We were presented with one story with gaps. Wide gaps. When pointed out, answers were not really satisfactory. After some digging more facts were reveiled.
Here I propose you, Frank and Helen, to give the complete story. If you want of course, not necessary at all. But would stop all speculations.
It simplifies.

Bying a new boat

A new boat is hardly ever perfect. I have never seen any new boat to be perfect. That includes boats from HR, Vindo, Nautor ... Always issues. Very irritating as the new owner has invested and then wants everything to be .. just perfect. However, a boat is not a car. Not at all. That's why we love the boats.

I see that you, Frank and Helen, have more than one complaints on your Hanse. Relax, fix the small ones yourself, and if there are any real biggies - do complain, but see to that all facts are in order.

Some few years there was an interesting case here in Sweden. A guy going into retirement wanted to upgrade from his old HR31 to a brand new HR 37. He had issues ... expected everything to be of the same quality as it was with his 40 year old Monsun (HR31). But the real surprise for him came when he installed some instruments, drilled holes in the hull and found that inner and outer skins were not attached to eachother. In my mind this is a typical fabrication fault. HR denied everything, it went to court, and all these things. Finally was settled, but the buyer did have a rough ride. Do not want anyone to go that route.
Maybe moral is, consider before you pick a fight with a large company.

The rudder damage
From the pics it is difficult to see exactly how the damage occured. There must have been some extrenal pressure, note that the crack is in the front.
At the same time, many manufacturers have had issues with their rudders. It could be a combination, or just external pressure.


Repairing the rudder
As usual, a repair depends on the damage. It is impossible to see in the pics how far the damage stretches.
A repair could be a surface / cosmetic thing, seeing to that the crack is closed, and kept together by strengthening the front part of the rudder.
Alternatively, the crack is investigated on its depth and nature. A repair could be to first widen/open the crack, investigation so the rudder has not been weakened by what has happened (this, I think, is what Paulo is hinting).
For €1000 you probably get the first kind. Consider what you want before going ahead. Had a surveyer looking at it.

I have done some repairs on my rudder and bearings myself. Worst part was digging the hole for dropping the rudder. I would gladly pay €1000 for just the digging ....


/J
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Last edited by Jaramaz; 11-23-2013 at 03:52 AM.
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  #57  
Old 11-24-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

Thank you, everyone, for all your opinions and comments. We still believe that Hanse should take some responsibility but it is looking like that will not happen. We've learned a lot from this, if nothing else!
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  #58  
Old 11-24-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

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Originally Posted by Frankschicketanz View Post
Thank you, everyone, for all your opinions and comments. We still believe that Hanse should take some responsibility but it is looking like that will not happen. We've learned a lot from this, if nothing else!
Frank, I agree with you, but I will will also let you on a little secret.

There are two sides to boat ownership, one is the happy fun sailing one, the other is the things going wrong, stuff breaking, arguing with people and spending lots of money on things you didn't intend to spend money on, sometimes at times when you are sure it shouldn't be your money getting spent.

If it truly was a 1000 Euro to fix, then pay it and move on. That is a cheap bill for a sparkly boat like yours, trust me.

If you haven't go a expensive bad luck boat story- you don't sail
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  #59  
Old 11-24-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

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Originally Posted by Frankschicketanz View Post
Thank you, everyone, for all your opinions and comments. We still believe that Hanse should take some responsibility but it is looking like that will not happen. We've learned a lot from this, if nothing else!
I don't know if Hanse should have taken more responsibility but certainly even if they were not obliged too they would be much better on the picture if they had made a small and relatively inexpensive effort to take care of the business. Probably that was what would have happened if the boat was not bought not to a dealer that went out of business and probably one that had already a bad relation with Hanse. Bad luck in all of this to both of you.

Frank and Helen, most of all I hope you have find sailnet. Around here we are mostly cruisers and the site that was originally mainly an American site is increasingly a more international one with many Canadians, many Europeans, Australians, Brazilians and sailors from all over the world.

This was not a good start, I mean it was a not agreeable subject, mainly to you and even so as your last post show your attitude remained positive regarding the forum.

I think I will voice the general opinion: We want both of you among us.

Stay and please Helen, post some voyage pictures on that thread I have suggested. You are a great photographer but if you go to that thread you will also find many great photos and many beautiful places all around the world. There is also another thread about sunset and sunrise images with great photos.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-24-2013 at 09:51 AM.
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  #60  
Old 11-24-2013
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Re: Never Buy a New Hanse

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post

Looking at the crack, I must say that the location and straight vertical orientation does strongly suggest a manufacturing defect. Many modern rudders are made in a two parts and glued together on the centerline. This looks like a failure of the glue line. If the glue line held, the tear would have wandered off at an angle following the stress line. If this had been an impact damage, you would also have expected some horizontal sheering. A responsible manufacturer would have suggested that the rudder be removed and examined by a qualified surveyor or someone with experience with forensic analysis of composite structures. They would have offered to pay for that investigation if the damage was found to be a manufacturing defect.

If Hanse had seen that picture and done anything less than that, I would have to agree with the original poster that Hanse is a company to be avoided. This clearly should be investigated as a warranty item, unless there was a provision in the warranty, such a excluding rudder damage or use as a charter boat or demonstrator that somehow applied I this case.

By the way, if this is a glue line failure, and it has been like that for months, this is not an easy repair. The rudder should be opened up completely and dried out. The glue joint should be cleaned and re glued with epoxy and then the leading and trailing edge of the connecting surfaced ground down and glassed over with epoxy and cloth. It's a very big job, and not easy to ever get right. I had it done on my 30 year old boat.

Frankly on a new boat employing modern rudder building techniques, it may make sense to replace the rudder all together since these glued rudders are more difficult to repair back to its original intended strength and shape.

Respectfully,
Jeff
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Last edited by Jeff_H; 11-24-2013 at 10:38 AM.
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