Tayana 37 Questions . . .

[VIEXILE]

I know my boats pretty good, and understand the vagaries of iron tankage, teak decks and substandard hardware, but can anyone comment knowledgeably on the Tayana 37 Cutters? I''m leery of western pacific boat construction. The prices are right, the accommodations and joinerwork great and so on, but I know nothing about variations from different years. I''m looking at a 1987 T37 Cutter. Alum. deck stepped mast, great looking boat. Price is $90K, which seems to vary little from well equipped and maintained models as much as 10 years older. The new ones are double that. I''ll be using the boat in the Caribbean for the most part, part-time liveaboard, with infrequent trips back to Maine via Bermuda. Hurt me.

[RichH]

Have T37 hull #423
Teak decks no problem if maintained.. underlayment is of small squares of ply, etc. so that if you get a leak it will be local to the small square of underlayment, unlike full sheet under-layment.
Stancheons subject to leakage with rot underneath.
Look for rot in the bowsprit; look carefully at the bowsprit cranse collar for evidence of cold working / embrittlement -eg. micro-cracks. If to be replaced, have one fabricated - eMail me for proper design.
Prop shaft is probably substandard metal.... survey should pull/extract shaft for corrosion inspection.... you dont have to pull the whole thing, just uncouple and slide back far enough to see the area that was riding in the packing gland.
Some of wiring will be non-marine grade (not tinned).
Avoid original LAM sails.... very bad ... worthless!!!! if Lam sails negotiate LARGE deduct.
Survey should include a VERY DETAILED (aloft) survey of the rigging to discover embrittlement, etc.
Uncover and do detailed analysis/inspection of chainplates.
Otherwise a T37 is built like a tank, not subject to the typical Taiwanese foibles. Definitely not a "leakey teakey".
Its a buyers market !!!!

[VIEXILE]

I think it''s going to become more and more of a buyer''s market over the next year. Embrittlement in the rigging? The wire rigging or tangs, masthead pieces and the like? Are the chainplates difficult to get at? Nevah hurd of a cranse collar . . . sounds a little S&M to me. Is it a ring attachment on the forward end of the bowsprit for the headstay? I''m going over to the BVI this afternoon for the Spring Regatta and to look up this boat and take a look at a Hallberg Rassy 38 asking $120K. Racing on a Jeanneau 39 and firm believer in racing on OPB''s (other people''s . . .). KW

[kimberlite]

where are you located?
eric

[RichH]

Embrittlement in all the tangs, solid fasteners, etc. - should be MUCH heavier!!! and better quality metal.
Cranse collar is the attachment for the forestay, whiskerstays, etc. - it''s essentially a cylinder with lugs welded on. Repetetive stress loading makes it behave like a spring - and like springs, the metal gets tired. The correction should be in the shape of the Greek letter "phi" - so that there is a direct stress connection from the forestay to the dolphin striker. Without the direct connection the cranse is subject to a lot of elastic deformation - not good!
Chainplates are mostly boxed-in behind the cabinerty.

[VIEXILE]

I was located at the Bomba Shack last night. Now we''re back home on the Northside overlooking Magens. BVI Spring Regatta was great, except we absolutely blew the first start. 5 min. starts in Puerto Rico, something else in St. Martin, then the race committee comes up with a 3 minute "starting cycle" for the BVI- meaning 6 minute starts. At least Rudy Thompson was right there with us, as was another boat. Got a 50 percent penalty, but WHIPPET''S figuring it out. Peeled off a couple of 8 knot pegs downwind today. KW

[pdlarson]

I am thinking of buying a Tayana 37. At least 60% of the bungs are missing from the teak deck. How can I tell if the deck below is wet or delaminated?

[RichH]

It doesnt really matter !!!! Tayana 37 decks are NOT (usually) built over large slabs of substrate but are set over approximately 4 to 6 " squares of encapsulated wood substrate, each set being an independent core and bounded by polyester. Most times if water penetrated, the amount on wetness will only be in the individual 4x4 or 6x6 core not a whole zone of deck. What should be done is to remove a representative amount of screws and actually probe (dentist pick etc.) into the core, the probe will come back out with amounts of rotted material, then recaluclate the amount that had rot vs. those that didn''t for an overall approximation of total wetness. Delamination even if wet does not seem to be a problem on Tayanas because of the small voids (4x4 or 6x6) containing the underlayment / core sections. Because of the very heavy construction, and independent cores, it will probably be impossible to ascertain with a moisture meter (either from the top side or bottom side) what the condition of the overall deck will be; the only way I perceive to ascertain deck wetness on a Tayana is by direct and actual probing - removing some screws and actualy probing. Some T37 owners aggressively replace the wet teak decks with a total reconstruction, others simply ignore it because of the ''latent'' strength due to the ''boxing'' of the core.
More realistically, if 60% of the plugs are missing, it would in a practical sense, mean that the teak deck is thin and worn out... and probably needs a total replacement or conversion to a teakless deck.... and that is going to cost some major $$$ to restore or a LOT of sweat equity on your part to restore.
Other: On a Tayana also be sure to carefully inspect for rot in the bowsprit, especially (and most difficultly) from the underside where the sprit is penetrated by throughbolts and by removing the stainless ''anchor guards'' and actually inspecting. The sprit is laminated alternatively with teak and asian (poor) grades of mahogany - the mahogany being very subject to rot. Also carefully look at the rigging fittings for signs of metal fatigue - especially the cranse collar on the bowsprit. Wetness problems can be a bigger problem at chainplates and mid station stancheon bases.... easily visualized underneath by discoloration at the nuts, and backing plates etc. that hold the stancheons, etc. Make it a requirement of your surveyor to remove the panels that enclose the chainplate bases and actually visualize for rot and metal degradation.... make it a requirement. Also make it a requirement to open a few areas to inspect the watertight quality of the bulwarks - from underneath.
Hope this helps.

[Jeff_H]

Actually there was a discussion on one of the other BB''s about a Tayana with this same problem. This boat actually had a deck failure in heavy weather with the deck actually tearing I believe near the edge of the cabin. In the case cited the fastenings for the deck were in a reasonably straight line and the core had rotted out at each fastening. This created a weakened line that buckled in heavy weather. When the teak decks were removed a large portion of the deck area was found to have rotten coring. The poster was trying to decide how to make the repairs, i.e. replace an entire deck.

Obviously, that is an extreme case, but I have always felt that there is no good way to install a teak deck over a fiberglass deck. No matter what the core material, sooner or later the fastenings will leak and water will be trapped and cause rot.

Then there is this hogwash that the rot can''t spread if small blocks of coring is used. Almost all balsa cored decks use small blocks of coring but the water still spreads and the rot still migrates. To prevent that from happening, the blocks would need to be vacuum bagged in, one at a time, using epoxy or vinylester resin to saturate all sides of the blocks. That never happens.

If it were me I would run not walk the other way on this boat. Tayanas are nice boats but if the owner has allowed the boat to sit with 60% of the bungs missing this is a boat that will need a lot of help.

Jeff

[carnalea]

interested in installing power anchor windlass on tayana 37. would appreciate any info or experience other owners may have? Tks, John