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  #11  
Old 01-07-2005
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Cruising Catamarans Offshore

Thorj30 said:

"you take as example racing cats, 3 of them who capsized.. without any sails on them ???? who in the right mind would sail without ANY sails "



I say:

Not any racing cats, but 60ft ocean racer cats.

And it were not three that capsized, but four.

You really didn''t understand why they have capsized. They have capsized because the moment force produced by the wind hitting the mast was enough to capsize them, no matter what, even without waves. Of course if you carried any sail, you would just have capsized sooner.
I have read an interview with one of the skippers involved (one of the French top professional racing sailors) where he explained clearly the situation that led to those inevitably capsizes.


Thorj30 said:

... "the story of the English fellow in a cat. with centerboards halfways down ... in a real blow you do not have the CB down...Of course some idiots will be able to do almost anything and even capsize a catamaran..."


I say:

Do you call 22Knots of wind a blow?

That was a crew of four, two of them were professional sail teachers and experienced delivery skippers. I can not find anything stupid in their actions, even with the centerboards. They were pointing at 55º with almost no waves (2ft) with “only”22 knots of wind in an undercanvassed boat with slightly free sheets…it looks alright to me...Why do you call them stupid?


Thorj30 said:

"you wrote that nobody else was going out"


I say:

No I did not write such a thing, I have said:

"the weather was kind of ugly, for summertime, nothing special, 25 to 35 knots of wind and 3 or 4 meters waves. I entered the sheltered waters of a "Ria" to spend the night and finished grounded. My family (two of them badly seasick all day) wanted .... to stay for some time, till the sea calmed dawn.
....I have made some comments: "see, those guys don''t get seasick nor scared...They are going at night and you don''t want to go in the daylight".

This means, that for me the weather was alright and that I wanted to go out in the morning. My family (seasick) didn''t want and I have stayed “grounded” against my will. In fact, I was complaining about that to them when I saw the Cat. sail away.

It was August, there was plenty of sailboats out there, a lot of them cruising the Biscay bay (and the weather was worse up there), making their way to the Med


Thorj30 said:

"how many mono hulls have sunk in the last 3 years ? “And how many of the unfortunate sailors on them did not have the chance to get picked up on the upside down but floating hull?”


I say:

I don''t know. Do you know how many Monohulls are out there for each cruising Cat? A lot, certainly.

That''s crazy! Who, except you (perhaps ) would want to "have the chance to get picked up on the upside down but floating hull ?"

If you go on an adequate monohull ocean going yacht you don''t get upside down for more than some seconds, even if capsized and in fact you do not have that dubious "chance to get picked up on the upside down but floating hull".

The Southerly 115 (the boat I have suggested) is a boat that can go where any cat. can go and has a LPS/AVS of around 160º with an almost inexistent negative stability (less than 0.1 GZ(m)).
Not a chance of staying upside down on that boat for more than a very few seconds, being the more probable that after capsizing the boat would continue to roll and come immediately, on the other side, the right way up.


Finally, don’t get me wrong, I like fast cats (not the fat ones) even if I like more Tri, like the “Dragonflies or the Corsairs” for example, but in this case, speed has its tradeoffs and safety is one of them.

Of course, everything is relative and I am not saying that Catamarans are unsafe, I am only saying that generally to the same size, Monohulls are safer and that is vastly exaggerated to state that - (to capsize a cat) “is almost impossible to do.”


Paulo
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  #12  
Old 01-07-2005
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Cruising Catamarans Offshore

Cats do overturn, even cruising cats. My father''s boat was hit by the mast of a cruising cat that was overturned by a strong wind in the Bahamas while both boats were sitting on the anchor.

Jeff
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  #13  
Old 01-07-2005
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Cruising Catamarans Offshore

I want to give an anecdote that is probably irrelevant.

I recently arrived in Grand Cayman after sailing there from Aruba. I saw many wrecked boats but the one that impressed me most was a totally destroyed 38ft cat. This was a common, very popular production cat. Both bows had broken off and the hull was wide open on both sides with large strips of the hull torn away. What got my attention was how thin the hulls were. I looked at the paper thin hull and imagined the stresses the seas exert on them. I could not imagine how such a vessel could stay together for long - and indeed it didn''t...

To be honest many monohulls were also damaged, but not one monohull looked as thoroughly trashed as that cat, except one classic wooden boat that was smashed to splinters at its dock.

What does this mean? Absolutely nothing. Just impressed me, that''s all

M. Murphy
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Old 01-08-2005
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Cruising Catamarans Offshore

It''s funny how when people talk about monohulls they readily recognize that there are coastal cruisers, mid range cruisers, blue water boats, etc., but when they talk about catamarans suddenly they are all the same. It''s time to recognize that cats have come a long way in recent years and now you can select any number of catamarans suitable for what ever type of sailing you have in mind however as is the case with monohulls you will need to do your homework. Keep in mind you will not get much in the way of usefull, unbiased information from committed monohullers.
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Old 01-08-2005
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Cruising Catamarans Offshore

Regarding the Southerly: I looked into them on the net -- this is a very interesting boat. There seem to be very few in the US and even fewer within my budget, but I will continue to keep an eye out.
Really? An AVS of 160 degrees? Sounds almost miraculous! (of course with the lifting keel fully down)
I would like to hear of other, similar craft.
My requirements are: under $50K, shoal draft of 4''0" or less, minimum DWL 25"0", minimum displacement 10,000lbs, attractive to look at.
Fair winds all, Gary
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Old 01-08-2005
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Cruising Catamarans Offshore

Hi Gary
I reread your post and your last answer. Lets say for 50 grand spending money you are better off with a monohull.

The crusing cats which I would consider using in the area you plan to sail would be over 100 grand more like 150.000 ... ouch.

As you can see there are especially Mono hullers who HATE Multis with all what is worth.....lol

Trick is if those folks have actually sailed BOTH ..lol... But again for your budget you are better off looking for a older Mono. ( and than later buy a fat)

Thorsten
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Old 01-09-2005
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Cruising Catamarans Offshore

This is crazy.Of course cats capsize any boat can capsize.The problem with cats is that you must be on top of things constantly.Ocean conditions can change rapidly and cats are very forgiving but only to a point.When things get out of control like they can do on any boat in bad weather ,it just happens faster.The only real drawback is what you do after a capsize should this unfortunate event happen.
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Cruising Catamarans Offshore

Gary - If you want input on possible monohulls you should probably start a new thread so the heading matches the topic.
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Cruising Catamarans Offshore

Thorsten
Thanks for the courtesy of a further reply.
I have located a few cats under 50K that seemed like possibilities. Mostly Geminis and a ''77 Prout 31 that looks attractive, with centerboards and inboard diesel. I believe centerboards to be highly desirable, both for seaworthiness (boards up, or at least the leeward board for lying ahull) and weatherliness (boards down). The outboard on Geminis not so. I gather that the Gemini is considered a near shore craft, altho a few have made ocean passages. I know any lucky fool sometimes manages a voyage in an unsuitable boat, but I wonder just how unsuitable a Gemini really is?
I can''t find much about the Prout at all. The rig with its far aft mast intrigues. It seems like reefed down the main would act like a mizzen for heaving to or lying at anchor. But I really don''t know anything about build quality of either boat.
Pax, Gary
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Old 01-09-2005
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Cruising Catamarans Offshore

You can get some pretty good info on both boats as well as a pretty good overview of the catamaran world from Charles Kantor''s book Cruising in Catamarans. You can buy it on line and I think you will find it a real help in evaluating your options.
For low priced catamarans you should keep an eye on 2hulls.com for sale By Owner section.
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